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Desysop request (JzG)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Please remove sysop for now. Thanks, Guy (help! - typo?) 09:00, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

JzG, I've done that for you Worm^TT(talk) 09:40, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Just a note in the event of a resysop request in the future, but Guy has been heavily involved at the Andy Ngo and Antifa pages recently, and has recently taken INVOLVED admin action by partial blocking an editor from the Antifa page. See this ongoing discussion. I have no comment on the merit of the block, but this is also not the first time Guy has requested a desysop amid questions of potential out of line admin actions. Mr Ernie (talk) 15:42, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

At the moment Guy is free to ask for the mop back, and it would be given. He hasn't resigned from Wikipedia to avoid being desyopped. If someone decided to open an Arb case regarding the incident, and Guy didn't turn up for the case so it couldn't be heard, then he wouldn't be allowed the tools back on request until the case had been heard. But if he was responding to the case, and he asked for the tools back, my understanding is they would be given - I'm not sure of a reason at that point why they wouldn't be because responding to questions about an admin's actions is compliant with WP:ADMINCOND. Guy has his own reasons for requesting the removal of the tools, but it doesn't appear to me that avoiding scrutiny is one of those reasons. SilkTork (talk) 17:50, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

When I asked for the tools back two years ago, I had a cloud of supporters arguing that I should not get the tools back because the resignation was "obviously" under the cloud. Even though nobody could provide a single example of misuse of the tools, the argument was that my behavior was "obviously" below the admin standards, and three crats in fact opposed the return of the tools. Based on this experience, I strongly recommend every admin who is resigning the tools in a situation which even remotely can be interpreted as controversial, to stop using the tools but keep them instead. (No opinion about the current case, though I apparently protected this article a few days ago).--Ymblanter (talk) 16:44, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

As has been previously established, the determination of whether the tools were resigned "under a cloud" is done when the rights are re-requested, not at the time of relinquishment. --qedk (t 愛 c) 19:07, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes that’s why I said “ in the event of a resysop request in the future” and noted that this has happened before when their tool use was questioned. Mr Ernie (talk) 19:28, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

I don't see any serious indication that Guy has misused the tools, nor that he violated WP:INVOLVED, nor that he is under any sort of "cloud". Certainly the thread you linked provides no evidence of any of those things, so I think it's worth nipping these insinuations in the bud. Separately, Guy has said that he's taking a break to manage stress and burnout, which is something we should encourage admins to do. You're weaponizing his distress, and his mature response to it, which is a really shitty thing to do. MastCell ^Talk 17:33, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Indeed. Not that we'd determine anything on the basis of an editor whose main raison d'etre appears to be to edit-war on AP2 articles and opine on drama boards, of course. Black Kite (talk) 17:57, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Aspersions are fun to cast, but I’ve never been the subject of any noticeboard issues nor caused any dramatic ArbCom cases. Mr Ernie (talk) 19:04, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

"the determination of whether the tools were resigned "under a cloud" is done when the rights are re-requested, not at the time of relinquishment" pithily put. I'm going to add that to WP:CLOUD. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:17, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

I've never been sure why the convention is to do it that way; perhaps it's just because if someone's resigning the tools and never intends to return, then there's no value in raking them over the coals. But on the other hand, there's an argument that if an accurate judgement of "under a cloud" is to be determined, it would be better at the time of the resignation, when the events leading up to it are still fresh in everyone's minds. And if it was determined here that a cloud was going to be summoned, the person might decide not to resign after all.  — Amakuru (talk) 18:30, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Dear me. Do any of you guys want to rename this thread "witchhunters gather"? -Roxy the inedible dog . wooF 18:45, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Probably not. PackMecEng (talk) 18:51, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

@Roxy the dog: just to be clear, my comment has nothing to do with Guy's relinquishing of the tools here - I have no opinion whatsoever on that, other than that it's a shame to lose one of our experienced admins. I was commenting on the "under a cloud" process in general. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 21:14, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

"At re-request, not relinquishment" is a stupid rule that is very unfair to would-be-resigning admins. The admin should know whether their resignation is or is not under a cloud, so that the admin can decide whether or not to resign under a cloud. Not telling them until after they resign is "gotcha!" I have no say here, but change the stupid rule. Levivich ^harass/_hound 19:34, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

In theory what you're saying could be true. In reality, I think the passage of time works to the resinging sysop's benefit. Issues that seemed large at the time don't when read later on and because people aren't as agitated about it either so the rhetoric cools off a little so we're able to put it into better perspective. And that's not counting that our current crat corp has repeatedly shown itself to be looking to find reasons to resysop rather than not. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 20:23, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

I don't understand the problem many people seem to be having here. All Mr Ernie seems to be saying is, "If JzG requests readminship, here is some context that will assist in determining cloudiness." this is a good thing for the encyclopaedia because if it does indicate a cloud then we don't resysop someone who should not be without discussion, and if it is not the indication of a cloud then everyone can clearly see that and there can be no accusations of trying to hide things. Thryduulf (talk) 20:36, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

FWIW, mine has been considered "under a cloud" when I lost it in '10 because of the circumstances that led to it. (TL;DR, self-blocking was involved and this was shortly after CRASH badges were bundled in. I have no desire to be part of CRASH, and since the badge remains bundled...) —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Takes a strong man to deny...} 20:44, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Readers will note I made no mention of a cloud in my response. I was providing a link to a current discussion that may have impacted this desysop request. Interested parties can now easily go check this discussion in the event of a resysop request and judge for themselves if there are any clouds without having to dig through page histories using old dates as guidance. I thought it was an involved action, others disagreed, but it will be for bureaucrats to decide in the future. There’s no need to shut this discussion down. Mr Ernie (talk) 21:44, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes, there is, because this happens every time an even remotely controversial resignation happens. Primefac (talk) 21:45, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Potentially controversial resignations need to be looked at. Especially if one admin makes a habit of it. Are you able to quickly check the events behind JzG’s last desysop request? It’s actually kind of hard to find. Mr Ernie (talk) 21:50, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Under a cloud#When and how a determination is made --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 21:57, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• Folks may, if they wish, continue this discussion and related matters at Wikipedia_talk:Administrators#Restoration_of_adminship_/_"under_a_cloud". SilkTork (talk) 18:29, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Inactive administrators/2020#December 2020

The following inactive administrators are being desysoped due to inactivity. Thank you for your service.

1. Brion VIBBER (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

   Last admin action: 2011

2. Thatcher (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

   Last admin action: 2012

3. Rkitko (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

   Last admin action: November 2015

— xaosflux ^Talk 02:05, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Does Brion VIBBER still work for the WMF? bibliomaniac15 02:08, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

@Bibliomaniac15: according to meta-wiki he does (meta:User:Brion Vibber (WMF)). — xaosflux ^Talk 02:13, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

(c.f. https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/staff-contractors/ ). — xaosflux ^Talk 02:14, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Desysop request (Andres)

Please desysop me for now. Andres (current rights · rights management · rights log (local) · rights log (global/meta) · block log) Thanks, Andres (talk) 06:53, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Done. SilkTork (talk) 08:57, 1 December 2020 (UTC)