Talk:Egyptian Arabic

No need for 'Ottoman'

In the 'Honorifics' section, there's no need to put the modifier 'Ottoman' before 'Turkish'. Ottoman Turkish was the official register of Turkish in the Ottoman Empire. There is nothing about these words in this section that makes them belong to that register. They are simply Turkish. One could keep the terming if there would be the original spelling in the Perso-Arabic alphabet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Typisch Ich (talk • contribs) 19:35, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, and there's no need to put the modifier 'Old' before 'English'. Old English was the official register of English in Anglo-Saxon England. There's nothing about the word beam that makes it belong to that register... except for the fact we're talking about it in the context of Old English and it doesn't matter if it looks the same in the modern language.

That said, sure, someone should add the Ottoman Turkish alphabet, which can be described as "Perso-Arabic" but isn't named that. — LlywelynII 04:24, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

"Masry" is not the "official" spelling.

There is no "official" spelling. It comes down to pure personal preference whether a Y or an I is used. The final /i:/ is spelled a "y" or an "i" depending on personal preference. Karim obviously prefers the Y ending but so many people use an I instead. It's not 'official'. -MatthewS. (talk) 18:22, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Of course there is an official spelling depending on which romanization system you're using, albeit most are built with SMA in mind.

Within the context of the lead both forms are incorrect. If we're translating Egyptian Arabic from Arabic and Colloquial Egyptian from Arabic then we should be translating Egyptian from Arabic, not randomly transcribing it instead. To the extent it's used in English—although that isn't what the section currently says—then both should be provided as alternative forms of Egyptian with a note on the risk of confusion with the ancient-kids-drawing-on-walls kind. — LlywelynII 04:28, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Aamyyia

The term "Aamyyia" doesn't belong to one nation, and doesn't refer to a certain dialect. Aamyyia is the most spoken Arabic of every single Arabic speaking country. 156.214.62.148 (talk) 12:19, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

You're right, it doesn't, yet within Egypt, the term is used to differentiate the local vernacular from the standard register of Arabic. However, this is sufficiently discussed in the Name section. إيان (talk) 23:38, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Iow, they're wrong. It does refer to a certain dialect in this dialect. — LlywelynII 04:29, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

local name

I noticed some problems with the local name(s), i did my best to fix them myself, but can someone please check my work?

1. the local name in the info box "nativename = اللهجه المصريه [elˈlæhgæ l.mɑsˤˈɾejjɑ]" (Egyptian dialect) and introduction Arabic: العامية المصرية (colloquial Egyptian) didn't match.

• i added the name from the info box to the introduction.
• i didn't add the name from the introduction to the info box because there seems to be only room for one?
• but possibly we should discuss which name goes in the infobox? the name in the intro has multiple references but the name in the infobox has none? Looking around wiktionary a combined name seems to be an option "Egyptian colloquial dialect"?
• other than the different word, they also spell the adjective "Egyptian" differently, one ends in ha and the other in ta-mahbuta. Is one of these an error? It doesn't look consistent for the difference in adjective congugation for differently gendered nouns? Are they in different dialects, one in Masri and one in MSA? I thought the dotless ha ending might be Masri, but it uses the Arabic Ya before the Ha ا ل م ص ر ي ه which doesn't seem like Masri?

2. the name that was originally in the introduction didn't have a pronunciation, i added it from wiktionary الْعَامِّيَّة المِصْرِيَّة but it was "some assembly required"…

al-‘āmmiyya + al- + miṣriyya

• should the lam ل in the second al ال also have a sakkun لْ like the first one?
• does combining the words change the pronunciation?

@إيان: since you seemed to know what you were talking about in the topic above.

Irtapil (talk) 18:27, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

I found the IPA in the Egyptian_Arabic#Naming naming section so i removed my attempt at a Romanization al-‘āmmiyya al- miṣriyya because the IPA is better. Possibly the Egyptian_Arabic#Naming naming section should go up to the intro? it's not very long. Irtapil (talk) 18:40, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Hey Irtapil, thanks for your efforts and for your consideration in asking my opinion. "اللهجه المصريه" is common orthography in Egypt, though it's considered non-standard or even "incorrect" by prescriptivists. The name (and how it's written) is a very political issue on which there is not much reliable literature. Even miṣriyya is pronounced مَصرية "miṣriyya" in vernacular Egyptian, though this could also be considered "incorrect." The sukūn exists on that ل but it's not necessary to write it. And speaking for myself, I'd say the intro is already quite hampered with naming. I'd vote keep the naming section where it is. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any further specific question I can help with. إيان (talk) 21:18, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

IPA belongs at Wiktionary entries unless they're unavoidable. Even then, they should be left shunted to the #Name section if one exists instead of cluttering the WP:LEADSENTENCE this badly. The romanizations, meanwhile, need to be restored where they're missing for any non-Latin text. — LlywelynII 04:32, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Complete nonsense should be removed

These factors help to make it the most widely spoken and by far the most widely studied variety of Arabic.[10][11][12][13][14]

Apart from WP:OVERCITE and WP:LEADCITE both applying here, Rough Guide is not remotely a WP:RS for this claim. None of them are or could be since it's patent nonsense. MSA and, to the extent it applies to the Quran, classical Arabic are both far more extensively studied. There may be some form of some claim that could apply to Egyptian Arabic w/r/t students in the New York City metro area or w/r/t second dialects among native speakers of Arabic... but what the article currently says can't remotely be true unless Muslims are now generally assumed to not study their holy book. — LlywelynII 04:38, 23 March 2024 (UTC)