Talk:Lebanese Civil War

Add Lebanese Night (song) to pop culture list?

Popular song by Chris de Burgh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timing_Is_Everything_(album) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.236.138.31 (talk) 09:26, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Plagiarism?

Much of this article (from "Independence" onwards) appears identical to this page at the website Global Religious Views. I suspected plagiarism because this is a huge amount of text to have absolutely no references and some of it is not very encyclopedic in style. It's possible the plagiarism runs the other way as unfortunately that website gives no dates or author credit. Hairy Dude (talk) 12:14, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

• Actually it looks like this website plagiarized Wikipedia. The oldest archive I can find is from 2015, whereas some of the duplicated text is present on Wikipedia in different forms at different times:
  • 2009: Lebanon was promised independence and on November 22, 1943 it was achieved
  • 2011: Lebanon was promised independence and on 22 November 1943 it was achieved
  • 2014: Lebanon was promised independence and on 22 November 1943, during World War II, it was achieved (the plagiarized form)
  • Now: Lebanon was promised independence, which was achieved on 22 November 1943
• The undefined reference "(see Gendzier)" also appears at some point before 2015. Hairy Dude (talk) 13:10, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Christian Palestinians?

Please add a source on the Christian Palestinians fighting with the PLO part. Palestinian Christians fought on both sides of the war. 2600:1001:B114:C3EF:0:11:50E2:5F01 (talk) 17:51, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Palestinian groups at the time were secular, so it doesn't make sense to point out specific religions. George Habash, the leader of the PFLP,is already mentioned, but due to the secular nature of the group, religion is irrelevant. FunkMonk (talk) 18:15, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 July 2023

Change "Jumblatt.After the Israelis from Chouf," to "Jumblatt. After the Israelis withdrew from Chouf," Danzig90 (talk) 08:40, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 10:57, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Problematic source

Jillian Becker seems to be considered a partisan source even at the time The PLO was first published (https://merip.org/1985/06/becker-the-plo/). Is there a better source showing the attacks came from Lebanon? 152.130.7.65 (talk) 15:12, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Seemingly biased stance, at least with context provided.

The text below states that the PLO response to the Israeli retaliatory attacks is "a clear violation of the ceasefire", stating it as a fact. However, there is no context on the ceasefire that explains why the PLO attacks are a violation and the Israeli attacks are not. As a casual reader, the statement stating one side is guilty of violating the ceasefire immediately after a sentence stating that the other side attacked first reads as very biased. I tried backing up and trying to find more context in the rest of the article but couldn't find any. Attempting to search elsewhere on the wiki also didn't reveal any more context.

I think the the last sentence of the passage below should be removed or more context/a citation added to support the statement. If there is supporting context elsewhere on the wiki it should be quoted or linked here.

"On 3 June 1982, the Abu Nidal Organization, a splinter group of Fatah, attempted to assassinate Israeli ambassador Shlomo Argov in London. Israel carried out a retaliatory aerial attack on PLO and PFLP targets in West Beirut that led to over 100 casualties. The PLO responded by launching a counterattack from Lebanon with rockets and artillery, which constituted a clear violation of the ceasefire." 152.130.7.65 (talk) 15:32, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Looks like WP:editorializing, yes. FunkMonk (talk) 15:53, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

The ANO was expelled from Fatah in 1974 and opposed the PLO at every turn, so bombing the PLO for the actions of the ANO nearly a decade after their split was a curious form of retaliation indeed; arbitrary and rather idiotic one might suggest, unless the ANO was just being used as an excuse to blow up another random target. If the justification at this point was genuinely that the ANO was originally a Fatah splinter, well, that would just be pathetic in the extreme. In the context, the Israel strike was a rather misdirected retaliation in the form of a conventional strike on one group for an (attempted) unconventional action by another group, while the PLO response was simply a direct conventional response to the originating piece of unprovoked conventional violence in the two-way exchange. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:54, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I read up on the background reasoning of the attacks and caught the PLO/ANO split, but didn't mention it since it's outside of the scope of the article. I'm just looking at how blame is being assigned in the article. I was trying to be diplomatic in my original post, but it's a pretty obvious oversimplification of an extremely complicated scenario in service of pinning blame to only one side.

Unless there is some provision that Israel used to label the ANO assassination attempt that would make both the Israeli and PLO attacks a violation of the ceasefire, or if a violation of the ceasefire immediately terminated it then only the Israeli attack would be a violation. Of course I haven't read up on the terms of the ceasefire, but no matter how exactly blame should be assigned, the statement blaming the PLO only and without context makes me wonder if there are any other places where bias was written in. 152.130.7.65 (talk) 17:59, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Maronites are Christians

There is no need to hyphenate “Maronite Christians”. 82.36.70.45 (talk) 16:04, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Improper citations

Large amounts of this article are improperly cited. The intro has two paragraphs that make many claims and then have only one or no citations for them.

“ The link between politics and religion had been reinforced under the French Mandate from 1920 to 1943, and the country's parliamentary structure favoured a leading position for Lebanese Christians, who constituted the majority of Lebanon's population. However, the country's Muslim minority was still relatively large, and the influx of thousands of Palestinians—first in 1948 and again in 1967—contributed to Lebanon's demographic shift towards an eventual Muslim majority. Lebanon's Christian-dominated government had been facing increasing levels of opposition from Muslims, pan-Arabists, and a number of left-wing groups. To this end, the Cold War exerted a disintegrative effect on the country, closely linked to the political polarization that preceded the 1958 Lebanese crisis. Christians mostly sided with the Western worldwhile Muslims, pan-Arabists, and leftists mostly sided with Soviet-aligned Arab countries.”

is an example and this is one of the only parts of the article most people will read. Is there someone who has edit permission who can clean this up ? 109.255.35.74 (talk) 10:26, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

This entire paragraph also has no source:

“Fighting between Lebanese Christian militias and Palestinian insurgents (mainly from the Palestine Liberation Organization) began in 1975 and triggered the establishment of an alliance between the Palestinians and Lebanese Muslims, pan-Arabists, and leftists. However, over the course of the conflict, these alliances shifted rapidly and unpredictably. Furthermore, the internal strife deepened as foreign powers, namely Syria, Israel, and Iran, became involved and supported or fought alongside different factions. Various peacekeeping forces, such as the Multinational Force in Lebanon and the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, were also stationed in the country during this time.” Dogsrcool420 (talk) 10:28, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

• Intros are just summaries of the article, so do not need citations. If this same information is cited in the article body, that's enough. FunkMonk (talk) 11:01, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Films

Hi, I just wanted to suggest two more films, both of them excellent, that you could add to the "In Popular Culture" section. Firstly, you definitely ought to have the Ziad Doueiri film West Beirut listed there. And even though it's not set at the time of the Civil War, you might also consider adding Doueiri's much later film The Insult, which is all about memories of the Civil War, a bit like Memory Box. That's all! Thanks for reading :~) Eastofeast (talk) 21:36, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Bus Massacre Death Count

Exactly how many Palestinians were killed in the Bus Massacre? The article here says 30, the article on the Massacre itself notes 27, Fawwaz Traboulsi's A History of Modern Lebanon claims 21 (page 182), and David Gilmour says 27 in Lebanon: the Fractured Country (page 109). 138.251.228.150 (talk) 20:12, 29 March 2024 (UTC)