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A fact from World language appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 January 2008, and was viewed approximately 2,880 times (disclaimer) (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Soviet literature declared Russian the "world language of internationalism", denouncing French as the "language of fancy courtiers" and English as the "jargon of traders"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2008/January.

Wikipedia

Russian? edit

Latest comment: 8 months ago5 comments3 people in discussion

How can Russian be a potential world language? The only thing that would suggest that is old Soviet propaganda. Many Russian minorities living in the country barely understand Russian, and its their second language despite living in that country and speaking languages that have less than 100000 speakers usually. YT DomDaBomb20 (talk) 20:41, 14 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

It is indeed true that Russian suffered from a big setback when eastern Europe broke away - such that many people there preferred to choose English [or German or French] as their second language. Something along these lines could be mentioned in the main article.

As I'm sure you know, Wikipedia insists on sources to justify its content - but in this context we could certainly ask whether some of them have now become outdated.

Admittedly, Russian is still widely used in much of central and west Asia [Kazakhstan, Armenia, Azerbaijan etc.], and is probably the second language taught in Mongolia. In addition, it continues to carry some importance in the scientific world.

Let's see what other editors say. --DLMcN (talk) 06:19, 15 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

I'll refer to a comment I made about two years ago on this talk page (since archived) about writing something about the decline of the Russian language in the article:

Only if we can find a WP:RELIABLE source which makes this point in connection to an assessment of the Russian language's status as a world language, I'd say. I'll note that while Ammon says Comparison of the numbers for 2005 with those for 1989 shows that the following languages have risen in economic strength: Chinese and Italian (2 ranks), Portuguese and Spanish (1 rank). Russian has declined (4 ranks), while English, Japanese, German, French, Arabic, and Hindi and Urdu have maintained the same rank. Bengali and Indonesian cannot be judged, the latter being a special case, for which the method of counting speakers seems to have changed in the source. For Chinese, Portuguese, and Spanish, the function of international languages has probably increased, and for Russian it has decreased, in line with the economic rank. (p. 111, section "Economic Strength") and In recent times, access to virtually all countries world-wide, the political prerequisite of 'globalization,' gave an additional push to the predominance of English, since regions of special protection for other languages were eliminated (for instance eastern Europe for German and Russian). (p. 117, section "The Rise and Stabilization of a Single, World Lingua Franca"), he also notes that Graddol foresees the growing importance of Chinese, Russian, [...] (p. 119, section "The Rise of New and the Continuation of Traditional Subordinate and Bilateral World Languages"). I don't think that is sufficient sourcing. For one thing, the 2005 figures are now just as out of date as the 1989 figures were in 2005. For another, we could only make very weak/heavily qualified statements about this based on this sourcing, and those statements would almost certainly not be WP:DUE. I don't think the statement "Following the end of the Cold War, the Russian language's relative position as a world language declined" would be controversial among scholars, but at present it's not attributable. TompaDompa (talk) 21:18, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

I still don't see any such sources. I have consequently removed the addition to the article that mentioned this aspect—it seems relevant to me, but it really needs to come from sources on the topic. TompaDompa (talk) 19:20, 15 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

We have sources confirming that the number of second-language speakers of Russian has fallen significantly since 1990. We agree that the "Number of second-language speakers" is the most important indicator for deciding whether or not a language should be accorded "World status". Are the Wikipedia rules really so strict - that we are not allowed to put those^ two points together? --DLMcN (talk) 07:21, 16 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Yes. TompaDompa (talk) 09:26, 16 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Why not add German as a world language? edit

Latest comment: 2 months ago4 comments4 people in discussion

German is described as a “major language of the world” in its own article. So why not add it here as well? XXE XDXx (talk) 10:28, 25 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

The short answer is that sources on the subject of world languages typically do not consider it one (thought there are some exceptions). What level of sourcing to require was discussed back in 2021 (see Talk:World language/Archive 3#A summary of the sources located so far, and a suggestion), and it was decided that we would be fairly strict. It may be useful to look at the table of sources compiled at the time, which I'll copy here for convenience. TompaDompa (talk) 10:45, 25 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Potential world languages
	Arabic	Chinese	Dutch	English	French	German	Hindi/Hindustani	Japanese	Latin	Malay/Indonesian	Portuguese	Russian	Spanish	Swahili
Ammon (2010)^[1]	Discussed	Leaning no	Not discussed	Yes (predominant)	Leaning yes	Discussed	Leaning no	Discussed	Not discussed	Discussed	Discussed	Discussed	Yes	Not discussed
Benrabah (2014)^[2]	Yes	Yes	Not mentioned	Yes (unique position)	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Not mentioned	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
de Mejía (2002)^[3]	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Yes	Yes	Yes	Not mentioned
García (2014)^[4]	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Intermediate	Yes	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Intermediate	Not mentioned	Yes	Not mentioned
Lu (2008)^[5]	Not mentioned	No	Not mentioned	Yes	Yes	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Not discussed	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Yes	Not mentioned
Mar-Molinero (2004)^[6]	Not discussed	Not discussed	Not discussed	Not discussed	Not discussed	Not discussed	Not discussed	Not discussed	Not discussed	Not discussed	Not discussed	Not discussed	Discussed	Not discussed
Mazrui (1976)^[7]	Regional	Regional/National	Not mentioned	Yes	Yes	Regional	National	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Regional/National	Not mentioned	Regional	Yes	Regional
Mufwene (2010)^[8]	Yes (second-tier)	No (major language)	Not mentioned	Yes (foremost)	Yes	Not mentioned	No (major language)	Not mentioned	Formerly	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Yes	Yes (second-tier)	Not mentioned
Pei (1968)^[9]	Discussed	No	Not mentioned	Discussed	Discussed	Discussed	No	Discussed	Not mentioned	Discussed	Discussed	No	Discussed	Not mentioned
Wright (2012)^[10]	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Yes	Yes	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Not mentioned	Formerly	Not mentioned	Yes	Not mentioned	Yes	Not mentioned

References

^ Ammon, Ulrich (2010-10-07), Coupland, Nikolas (ed.), "World Languages: Trends and Futures", The Handbook of Language and Globalization, Oxford, UK: Wiley-Blackwell, pp. 101–122, doi:10.1002/9781444324068.ch4, ISBN 978-1-4443-2406-8, The focus on non-native speakers corresponds to our intuition that French or English are international or world languages rather than Hindi; or rather than Hindi and Urdu, combined as a single language – or even rather than Chinese, in spite of the latter languages' higher numbers of native speakers
^ Benrabah, Mohamed (2014-01-02). "Competition between four "world" languages in Algeria". Journal of World Languages. 1 (1): 38–59. doi:10.1080/21698252.2014.893676. ISSN 2169-8252.
^ de Mejía, Anne-Marie (2002). Power, Prestige, and Bilingualism: International Perspectives on Elite Bilingual Education. Multilingual Matters. pp. 47–49. ISBN 978-1-85359-590-5. The terms 'international language' or 'world language' [...] have been defined as 'high prestige', majority language(s) used as a means of communication between different countries speaking different languages (Baker & Prys Jones, 1998: 702). These notions are often explained in terms of the rapid rise in globalisation and internationalisation during the twentieth century which has meant that certain languages have become languages of international communication at world level in such fields as science, technology, and international diplomacy (Baker & Prys Jones, 1998). The following languages of wider communication, that may be used as first or as second or foreign languages, are generally recognised: English, German, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Arabic, Russian and Chinese.
^ García, Adolfo M. (2014-01-02). "Neurocognitive determinants of performance variability among world-language users". Journal of World Languages. 1 (1): 60–77. doi:10.1080/21698252.2014.893671. ISSN 2169-8252.
^ Lu, Dan (2008-07-31). "Pre-imperial Chinese: Its hurdles towards becoming a world language". Journal of Asian Pacific Communication. 18 (2): 268–279. doi:10.1075/japc.18.2.13lu. ISSN 0957-6851. Judging by this criterion, one will have no hesitance to decide that English is worth the label of world language. Accordingly French and Spanish can be regarded as world language, too, because there are some speech communities of the two languages scattered in some parts of the globe.
^ Mar-Molinero, Clare (2004). "Spanish as a world language: Language and identity in a global era". Spanish in Context. 1 (1): 8. doi:10.1075/sic.1.1.03mar. ISSN 1571-0718.
^ Mazrui, Ali AlʾAmin; World Order Models Project (1976). A world federation of cultures : an African perspective. Internet Archive. New York : The Free Press. pp. 332–333.
^ Mufwene, Salikoko S. (2010-10-07), Coupland, Nikolas (ed.), "Globalization, Global English, and World English(es): Myths and Facts", The Handbook of Language and Globalization, Oxford, UK: Wiley-Blackwell, pp. 42–43, doi:10.1002/9781444324068.ch1, ISBN 978-1-4443-2406-8
^ Pei, Mario (1968). One Language for the World. Biblo & Tannen Publishers. pp. 12–16. ISBN 978-0-8196-0218-3.
^ Wright, Roger (2012), Hernández-Campoy, Juan Manuel; Conde-Silvestre, Juan Camilo (eds.), "Convergence and Divergence in World Languages", The Handbook of Language and Globalization, John Wiley & Sons, p. 552, doi:10.1002/9781118257227.ch30, ISBN 978-1-4051-9068-8, There is no generally agreed precise definition of what counts as a 'World' Language. For the purposes of this chapter, they can be defined as languages spoken over a wide geographical area, often as a result of previous colonization, and in many cases by native speakers of some other language. The category now includes Spanish, Portuguese, French, and English, but with reference to historically earlier periods the label has been applied to Latin [...]

German is not usually considered to be a world language because:

It has not that many (total) speakers compared to other languages which are typically considered world languages.
It is mainly spoken in Germany, Austria and Switzerland, meaning that the language is not very widespread aside from Central Europe.
- These are all very developed countries, meaning that almost all German speakers also speak English to a sufficient degree, making it quite unnecessary to learn German as a lingua franca.—-Maxeto0910 (talk) 12:44, 5 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

The main reason why I became interested in this Wiki-article, was to try and learn how useful - around the world - were the various languages which I had studied - namely, French, German, Spanish, Russian, Portuguese and Arabic]. Certainly, the picture is somewhat different now than it was in the 1960s, when I first looked at that question. At that time, German was very much a lingua franca in central and eastern Europe (and indeed Turkey) - and, to an extent, still continues to serve as one even now, despite having conceded ground to English.... But Maxeto is correct: it is no longer a lingua franca once you leave Europe.

I do of course realise that "my own personal impressions" do not qualify as a reliable source in the Wikipedia context ! --DLMcN (talk) 12:23, 7 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Perhaps worth mentioning languages which do not quite 'make the cut'? edit

Latest comment: 3 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion

How about including this sentence at the very end of the article? >

Some scholars (but only a minority) would also include Portuguese, Chinese, and/or German in their list of world languages.

.... and then adding Benrabah [and perhaps Wright and de Mejia] as sources?

[We did discuss this possibility in May 2021].

--DLMcN (talk) 16:12, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Whatever we do, we have to be consistent about it. For instance, if Benrabah is sufficient sourcing to add Portuguese, then the same must apply to adding Japanese and Swahili. The easiest ways to be consistent are to be as inclusive or as restrictive as possible. The article is currently closer to being maximally restrictive. I think it would be very different to be any more inclusive while staying consistent without going all the way to maximum inclusivity. This specific suggestion would create a two-tier system, which was discussed at some length back in February and March of 2021 (see Talk:World language/Archive 3#Two categories?) and which I don't think is a particularly good idea. I laid out my thoughts on the sources and how to apply them, as well as some reasons why this is somewhat complicated, back in May 2021 at Talk:World language/Archive 3#A summary of the sources located so far, and a suggestion. I don't think we have sufficient sourcing to say that only a minority of scholars would include certain languages. TompaDompa (talk) 19:15, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Add topic

[1] Ammon, Ulrich (2010-10-07), Coupland, Nikolas (ed.), "World Languages: Trends and Futures", The Handbook of Language and Globalization, Oxford, UK: Wiley-Blackwell, pp. 101–122, doi:10.1002/9781444324068.ch4, ISBN 978-1-4443-2406-8, The focus on non-native speakers corresponds to our intuition that French or English are international or world languages rather than Hindi; or rather than Hindi and Urdu, combined as a single language – or even rather than Chinese, in spite of the latter languages' higher numbers of native speakers

[2] Benrabah, Mohamed (2014-01-02). "Competition between four "world" languages in Algeria". Journal of World Languages. 1 (1): 38–59. doi:10.1080/21698252.2014.893676. ISSN 2169-8252.

[3] Mejía, Anne-Marie (2002). Power, Prestige, and Bilingualism: International Perspectives on Elite Bilingual Education. Multilingual Matters. pp. 47–49. ISBN 978-1-85359-590-5. The terms 'international language' or 'world language' [...] have been defined as 'high prestige', majority language(s) used as a means of communication between different countries speaking different languages (Baker & Prys Jones, 1998: 702). These notions are often explained in terms of the rapid rise in globalisation and internationalisation during the twentieth century which has meant that certain languages have become languages of international communication at world level in such fields as science, technology, and international diplomacy (Baker & Prys Jones, 1998). The following languages of wider communication, that may be used as first or as second or foreign languages, are generally recognised: English, German, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Arabic, Russian and Chinese.

[4] García, Adolfo M. (2014-01-02). "Neurocognitive determinants of performance variability among world-language users". Journal of World Languages. 1 (1): 60–77. doi:10.1080/21698252.2014.893671. ISSN 2169-8252.

[5] Lu, Dan (2008-07-31). "Pre-imperial Chinese: Its hurdles towards becoming a world language". Journal of Asian Pacific Communication. 18 (2): 268–279. doi:10.1075/japc.18.2.13lu. ISSN 0957-6851. Judging by this criterion, one will have no hesitance to decide that English is worth the label of world language. Accordingly French and Spanish can be regarded as world language, too, because there are some speech communities of the two languages scattered in some parts of the globe.

[6] Mar-Molinero, Clare (2004). "Spanish as a world language: Language and identity in a global era". Spanish in Context. 1 (1): 8. doi:10.1075/sic.1.1.03mar. ISSN 1571-0718.

[7] Mazrui, Ali AlʾAmin; World Order Models Project (1976). A world federation of cultures : an African perspective. Internet Archive. New York : The Free Press. pp. 332–333.

[8] Mufwene, Salikoko S. (2010-10-07), Coupland, Nikolas (ed.), "Globalization, Global English, and World English(es): Myths and Facts", The Handbook of Language and Globalization, Oxford, UK: Wiley-Blackwell, pp. 42–43, doi:10.1002/9781444324068.ch1, ISBN 978-1-4443-2406-8

[9] Pei, Mario (1968). One Language for the World. Biblo & Tannen Publishers. pp. 12–16. ISBN 978-0-8196-0218-3.

[10] Wright, Roger (2012), Hernández-Campoy, Juan Manuel; Conde-Silvestre, Juan Camilo (eds.), "Convergence and Divergence in World Languages", The Handbook of Language and Globalization, John Wiley & Sons, p. 552, doi:10.1002/9781118257227.ch30, ISBN 978-1-4051-9068-8, There is no generally agreed precise definition of what counts as a 'World' Language. For the purposes of this chapter, they can be defined as languages spoken over a wide geographical area, often as a result of previous colonization, and in many cases by native speakers of some other language. The category now includes Spanish, Portuguese, French, and English, but with reference to historically earlier periods the label has been applied to Latin [...]

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