Template talk:Archive box/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Alignment

Is there a way to make this appear next to the table of contents rather than below it for pages that are wide enough to display both side-by-side? Specifically, I'm wondering about my talk page. BigNate37_(T) 21:10, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Either delete the "__TOC__" or put it below the infobox. The infobox is floated with "float: right". --Swift 18:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Awesome, putting __TOC__ below the archive box did it, thanks! BigNate37_(T) 19:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Merge proposal

I suggest that Template:Archivebox be merged with this template. The former currently contains an archive link example which makes it necessary to substitute the template. It, furthermore, presupposes that the archive is made according to date &mdash not topic. Finally, by forcing a substitution, changes to the template will not affect old template boxes and if consistancy is to be maintained, updates must be made by hand.

I neither see the need nor great benefit for the added functionality that Archivebox has over Archive_box and suggest that we deprecate the former in favour of the latter. --Swift 01:35, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:Seems wise. It's rather convenient that Archivebox must be substituted, so there are no inclusions to be fixed before merging. Will do. -- Visviva 05:07, 28 November 2006 (UTC) Actually I see the other version has some defenders, although I'm durned if I can figure out why. No harm in having both, I guess. -- Visviva 05:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

It's been merged, {{archivebox}} now redirects here – Gurch 20:00, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Icon

Can we start a discussion on which icon works best? The contenders so far are:

• 
  Vista-file-manager.png
• 
  Crystal Clear app file-manager.png
• 
  system-file-manager.svg
• 
  Icon_file_cabinet.png
• 
  File-manager.svg
• 
  Filing cabinet icon.svg
• 
  Replacement filing cabinet.svg

Or we could move away from the filing cabinet concept (yes, I know, file-manager.svg is more like a safe). --Random832(tc) 21:55, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Archives are usually kept in boxes rather than filing cabinets aren't they? See here for an example of what I am talking about. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 19:43, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Do we have any icons of one of those? That would be ideal IMO. As it is, all of Vista-file-manager, Crystal Clear app file-manager, and Icon file cabinet are in active use in various templates. Note I have expanded the scope of this discussion to all of these.--Random832(tc) 17:57, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

You're drowning in a glass of water...Why don't we just keep the icon??? ~~ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Armando12 (talk • contribs) 04:18, 18 February 2007 (UTC).

It's been changed twice on this template. Also, there are several archive icons used across different archive templates and i think it would be better to have a single default. --Random832 14:27, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

What template does not use Vista-file-manager.png ? —Centrx→talk • 15:33, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Template:Archives uses the crystal clear icon. Icon file cabinet.png is used in Template:Afd-privacy. --Random832 13:40, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Because, the current icon is in PNG format — doesn't scale very well. An SVG format icon would be heaps better to use. — JeremyTalk 02:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

• Prefer Filing cabinet icon.svg, otherwise Vista-file-manager.png. Regards, David Kernow (talk) 12:50, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

• • Prefer Image:Replacement filing cabinet.svg -- Avi 16:35, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I made you guys a category: commons:Category:Archive icons :P. Now it's very easy to have a quick overview over all the confusing icons. --Ysangkok 15:53, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

New image?

I'd rather have Vista-file-manager.png, however as of today another image has appeared that I don't see here and that doesn't look clear. And I also wouldn't like an icon with lots of boxes, even if it was clear. The drawer thing is quite established for what it symbolizes. For myself, instead of reverting here, I will replace the template with its code containing the 1st icon in my talk page. Hoverfish Talk 08:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

The photo that replaced the file cabinet icon looks like nothing more than a brownish white grid on most pages. Are there copyright issues with using one of the icons above? For something that's usually always small or icon-sized I think it would make sense to go back to one of those earlier choices. Robotman¹⁹⁷⁴ 09:46, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes I must agree that the new image looks poor. Hard to make out what it means. I would prefer it as it was but appreciate if there was good reasons for the change, i.e copyright issues or whatever. The previous image was Image:Vista-file-manager.png, what is the issue regarding using this? Adambro 11:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

From what I see, it is under GNU General Public License with no mention of any restrictions... Hoverfish Talk 13:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I changed it back - GPL is a free license, and the picture that was there before doesn't work that small. --Transfinite 18:44, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

It was presumably changed due to WP:AN#Possible serious copyright/policy violation. --Random832 19:26, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I have replaced the Crystal Clear icon with one I drew myself. It's very like the old Vista-file-manager image, but no part of it is derivative of the Vista image, or of Filing cabinet icon.svg. I'm kind of used to a brown filing cabinet icon, but (as always) you know how to revert if you prefer the, um, very blue Crystal icon. Thanks. — mholland 23:00, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I've made a new icon for this template. It combines features of the other icons and looks quite nice.

Hope you enjoy it! ~~Eugene2x ^{Sign here} ☺ ~~ 19:27, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose ;) too big, and too "cartoony" --Steve _(Slf67) ^talk 23:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose and Revert to this version before people started toying with it. Image:Crystal Clear app file-manager.png is fine, fucking leave it until theres a final word on this "copyright violation" shit. -- Reaper X 02:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose. The color is so garish that I was compelled to come to this talk page and moan about it. =P The archive box is distracting now, while it needs to be visually out of the way unless one is looking for it. The previous image was fine. The illustration on this is fine too; I don't object to a recoloring to tone it down, but can we revert in the meantime? — coelacan — 02:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I'm going to revert it per my suggestion cause Image:Vista-file-manager.png is up at WP:AN#Possible serious copyright/policy violation, and Image:Crystal Clear app file-manager.png was suggested to be a good substitute in the meantime. AND, people are whining about the cartoony gold cabinet. Sorry Eugene, no offence, people just don't like fancy archives. -- Reaper X 03:07, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

• Support if Image:Vista-file-manager.png can't be used. I personally think this looks better than Image:Crystal Clear app file-manager.png. Robotman¹⁹⁷⁴ 03:15, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose. Colour is a bit off, and it is not in SVG format. — JeremyTalk 02:41, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

• Why a strong oppose just because of color issues? Plus, "not in SVG format" sounds like a poor excuse. ~~Eugene2x ^{Sign here} ☺ ~~ 04:52, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

How about this?

Image:File-manager.svg is used to illustrate archives in many contexts. Shinier, cleaner and less dull than the current image, I propose that it is more appropriate for an online encyclopaedia, and fits better with Wikipedia's iconography. Check it out:

the skomorokh 20:44, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

{{editprotected}} Please update the template with the newer image, if you please. the skomorokh 14:17, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Declined. Please establish consensus for this change. --- RockMFR 21:09, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Other Languages?

Is there a way to get this onto another language Wikipedia? UncleMontezuma 21:04, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Without wishing to sound glib: copy and paste. The basic wiki code should work on any of the Wikipedia projects (and, css styles apart, on any MediaWiki wiki). You'd need to translate the word and link, and swap the image for one available from the local Wikipedia or from the Commons. Versions of this template are already available on ar, bg and sl wikipedias (and probably others). Where are you looking to port it? — mholland (talk) 21:25, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Linking problem

Hey can someone look at User talk:Searchme? It shows the archives as valid links, but they are not clickable. I tried using this a long time ago, with the same results, which is why I didn't use it then. Thanks. Joe I 05:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Good question. Nothing seems to be wrong with your page in terms of coding, especialy there. Maybe it's a browser parsing error. --JB Adder | Talk 05:41, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

The problem is caused by the following block of code on your page:

<div style="position:relative; -height:1%; margin-bottom:7em; z-index:10"><div style="position:absolute; bottom:-1em; width:100%"><div style="width:100%; position:absolute; padding-bottom:1em">[[Image:Smile icon.png|left|25px]]<br>[[Image:Smile icon.png|right|25px]] <center>{{Qxz-ads}}</center> </div></div>

The template floats to the right of the ad container's original position, so that it is actually behind the advertisement before the CSS repositions it. I suspect that your browser leaves a sort of phantom layer behind, or extends the layer from the original position to the new position; either way, it covers the links, so that you are clicking on the advertisement layer instead of the archives box layer.

Removing the advertisements fixes the problem, as does forcing the advertisement layer away from the box with <br clear="all" /> after the archive list template. —{admin} Pathoschild 06:06:47, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Yep, that got it, thanks alot :) Joe I 07:11, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Welcome. —{admin} Pathoschild 01:36:32, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

hidden / collapsible

Is there an easy way to make the archive box collapsible? I played around with {{hidden}} and it looked somewhat ok, but I'm really just experimenting with syntax, I have no clue what I'm doing... Or does someone know how I could use navframe or some other template to do this? Wouldn't it be nice to have an archive box which is collapsed when the page is loaded? —AldeBaer 22:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Sure. Keep fiddling. Look at other templates that are collapsible and see if you can apply it to here. It is not the end of the world if this talk template is broken for a few minutes. —Centrx→talk • 22:20, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm playing around with it in my sandbox, but I'm a real newbie to CSS/JS etc so it may take me a while to get a working result. —AldeBaer 12:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I have a preliminary result in my sandbox. The last issue is how to make the box load as collapsed. class="toccolours collapsible collapsed" won't work - or I'm constantly messing up the syntax (which is quite possible). Does anyone have an idea how to achieve that? —AldeBaer 14:18, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

collapsible archive box

Archive

Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Here's my collapsible archive box. The colors and width etc can of course be changed to your liking. See the code below. I have it on a subpage of my userspace which I transclude to each new archive page.

<div class="NavFrame collapsed" style="border:1; padding:0; width:200px; float:right;"><div class="NavHead" style="background-color:#e6e6fa;">'''Archive'''</div>
<div class="NavContent" style="text-align:left;">
{| class="plainlinks" width="100%" style="background: #f8fcff;"
|- align="top" align="left"
|
*[[User talk:YOURUSERNAME/Archive 1|Archive 1]]
*[[User talk:YOURUSERNAME/Archive 2|Archive 2]]
*[[User talk:YOURUSERNAME/Archive 3|Archive 3]]
|}</div></div>

—AldeBaer 15:43, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Archive

Alternatively, here's a version with all the transclusions from the original template. Should work, but haven't tested.

<div class="NavFrame collapsed" style="border:1; padding:0; width:200px; float:right;"><div class="NavHead" style="background-color:#e6e6fa;">'''Archive'''</div>
<div class="NavContent" style="text-align:left;">
{| class="plainlinks" width="100%" style="background: #f8fcff;"
|- align="top" align="left"
|
{{#if:{{{auto|}}}|{{#ifeq:{{{auto}}}|long|{{Archive list long}}|<div style="text-align: center">{{archive list}}</div>}}{{#if:{{{1|}}}|<br/>}}}}{{{1|}}}
|}</div></div>

—AldeBaer 16:40, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

The second does not appear to work. The first one works but it should start off with the default link being "show", rather than "hide", otherwise you one has to click it twice. 19:10, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Collapsable by default / banner

See template:archive banner for a collapsible, banner-style archive box. It has advantages over this template:

1. It is a banner, so it has an obvious location on talk pages (with all the WikiProject banners, etc.)
2. It is collapsable.
3. By default, it assumes pages named "Archive 1", "Archive 2", etc. Thus, just putting {{archive banner}} on a page accomplishes the goal of displaying archives — no parameters needed!

Timneu22 (talk) 14:46, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Add optional link ?

Hi, on the dutch wiki I made a template pretty similar to this one. One difference though is that on the dutch version I added the option to have a link to the next (or first) non-existant archive page, so if you already have /Archive 1 the link will be /Archive 2. After adding content to that page, the link will be /Archive 3, and so on. Would it be a good Idea to add this option here also? Freestyle 15:26, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Template:Archives is a similar, automatic, template on enwiki. I'd be concerned that adding automation here might break quite a few existing transclusions. — mholland (talk) 15:45, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Semi-protection

It shocked me today when this edit happened, because I thought this template would be considered high risk for sure, and would be semi-protected. I'm going to go and apply for semi-protection now. -- Reaper X 20:28, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

{{done}} -- Reaper X 22:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, we tried, but Centrx seems to think he knows best 86.133.139.195 12:59, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Most pages are unprotected after a time. There is no special reason why this template ought to be protected. It does not appear on articles and over the course of four months had only a single instance of vandalism—rather tepid vandalism that was quickly reversed. —Centrx→talk • 04:55, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

There is a special reason: It's a high risk template. Besides, what improvements can we make to it? If there are any, what are the chances an anon/new user will bring any change? If there is some, they can just discuss it here. Bottom line is it's an HRT, and I feel it should stay semi-protected for that reason, with rapid reverts or not. -- Reaper X 05:12, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

It is not a high-risk template because it does not appear on articles and over the course of four months had only a single instance of vandalism—rather tepid vandalism that was quickly reversed. —Centrx→talk • 02:12, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Why does it link to edit windows?

On Talk:Polar bear, clicking the archive links takes the reader to an edit window view of the archive. Why? This does not seem like proper behaviour since archives should no longer be edited. I think this template used to work right, but then the Talk page was moved, the archives had to be moved seperately, and now I have this problem.--Yannick 02:11, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't see a problem, the pages are linked properly. The problem probably only existed when the page name had a capital B on bear, and the pages would be linked to Talk:Polar Bear/Archive 1 instead of Talk:Polar bear/Archive 1. Capitalization makes a difference (which is dumb, but hey, I'm no meta-junkie). -- Reaper X 02:28, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

No, the problem I'm talking about only happened after I moved the archives to Polar bear with a small b. If you go to Talk:Polar bear now and click on /Archive 2, the correct archive does open up, but it opens up in an edit window instead of a normal view.--Yannick 02:55, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Thats wierd man. I'm telling you, it works fine for me. Is your computer calender set correctly? If I remember correctly, that can tamper with what page version you view. Besides that, I have no idea man. Sorry. -- Reaper X 02:58, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Checked the calender, rebooted the computer, cleared the cache, no change. Thanks for the suggestion though. Note that clicking on your links in this section works fine for me. It's just through that template.--Yannick 03:11, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Hey it works now! What happened?--Yannick 03:28, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Yay. I dunno. -- Reaper X 03:37, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Links not working

This template currently does not work in Talk:Solar energy. The links to existent archives are shown as red links. Shawnc 12:25, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

That's not a problem with the template. The article was recently moved, and the archives were left behind at the old title. I have moved all three talk archives to fix the problem. — mholland (talk) 16:10, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Subst?

I've noticed a few bots running around subst'ing this template (e.g. User:SoxBot) but the template documentation doesn't say anything about the appropriateness of this. Is there a particular benefit to subst'ing? Axem Titanium (talk) 15:05, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

What?! WHY?! That's utterly ridiculous, it takes up a bunch of space and just complicates things? I'm going to look into this. -- Reaper X 15:23, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I just removed {{archivebox}} (the previous version of this template which DID require subst'ing) from the list of templates that should be substituted. Axem Titanium (talk) 15:29, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

The operator has been notified and has indicated he understands the problem. About 95% of his edits have been reverted by me. -- Reaper X 17:06, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Please remove {Archive list} and {Archive list long} calls from {Archive box}.

Presently {{Archive list}} and {{Archive list long}} are together making 165 calls to #ifexist. Per Werdna, that is putting too great a load on the servers, and all pages that (including cascades) that make more that 100 calls will break.

The list of articles crossing the limit are listed here, and very many are talk pages that simply include {{Archive box}}.

Please remove {{Archive list}} and {{Archive list long}} calls from {{Archive box}} until some other solution can be worked out. Thanks. -- Fullstop (talk) 00:26, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

As I understand it, this being worked upon (by you!). Splash - tk 01:02, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Heh. Yes. See next note. -- Fullstop (talk) 01:06, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

(ec)

I have temporarily removed the call to {{Archive list}} so now any instance of auto= goes only to {{Archive list long}}. I chose the latter because it has only 36 calls to #ifexist (versus 100 in the former). -- Fullstop (talk) 01:05, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

#ifexist continued...

Has anyone worked out a solution to this yet? MrKIA11 (talk) 17:38, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, I had written a "fix" for {{archive list}} that didn't use #ifexist at all, but it got shot down for accessibility reasons. The fix is at archive box/sandbox. (or was anyway)

All solutions, including the #ifexist-based ones, are really just lousy hacks, necessitated by the fact that the archiver bots don't update the call to {{archive box}}/{{archive box collapsible}} (for example, by providing/updating a parameter that would tell the template how many archives there are).

{{Archive list long}} could probably be replaced by {{Special:Prefindex/{nameofpage}/}}. Prettiness is all well and good, but utility must take precedence over prettiness.

-- Fullstop (talk) 21:39, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

And what about {{archives}}, which can do either type of list, or neither (defaulting to "long")? —DragonHawk (talk|hist) 17:52, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Any reasons why {{archives}} is not simply a redirect to this template?

On second thoughts: is there any reason why the functionality of {{Archive box collapsible}} can't be integrated into this template too? For example with a collapse= parameter? Or better yet, with a generic style= parameter? -- Fullstop (talk) 21:39, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Archive box vs. Archives?

What is the relation between {{archive box}} and {{archives}}? Which should be used? Should one be depreciated and merged into the other? Why or why not? TheHYPO (talk) 05:27, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Different options I think. Some users may like the other template.--Tasc0 22:49, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, {{archives}} was created on April 20, 2006. {{archive box}} was created on August 2, 2006, well after that. The latter was suggested to be merged with the former 2 weeks after its creation, but the tag was removed in January after the merge had apparently taken place. I don't know why any depreciation took place. A very good question indeed, and it's something that should be looked into. The only differences I see is a different image, an edit button, and {{archives}} displays it's archive list through a transcluded subpage. -- Reaper X 05:06, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure they're just too different takes on the same idea, probably converging over time. FWIW, I've been sort-of working on incorporating functionality presently only in {{archive box}} into {{archives}}, so that the later has features which are a superset of "box". The "box" template could then be turned into a wrapper, or replaced, or whatever. Or left alone. —DragonHawk (talk|hist) 17:51, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

New Archive Box

I have designed a new archive box that incorporates everything from {{archives}}, {{archive box}}, and {{archive box collapsible}}, and then some. I propose that this be the new code for {{archive box}}, and that {{archives}} and {{archive box collapsible}} translude it. Would people please test it out and see if there are any glitches or problems. I think I have tried every possible combination, but there might have been something that I missed. Comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. MrKIA11 (talk) 23:45, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I have no particular opinion on the new template, but I wish to register strong objection to the lack of a width parameter in the template. Many editors prefer a different size for their archivebox, and there is no justification for requiring standardization of size. Also, as this will affect many pages, I suggest getting more feedback before making any such change. seresin || wasn't he just...? 23:04, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I have to agree with Seresin - I'd prefer to have the option of a non-standard width--Cailil ^talk 00:41, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree, see below. MrKIA11 (talk) 00:43, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Width parameter

Why is it being removed? Lara❤Love 19:29, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

To standardize the archive boxes. There is somewhat larger discussion here. MrKIA11 (talk) 19:34, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm....I guess I can see part of the reason, however I find it mildly disturbing that something so widely used is basically being completely redone at the decision/discussion of only two people, one of which is admittedly new at template making? Why wasn't the issue of a redesign and parameter changes brought to the attention of a larger group of people? AnmaFinotera (talk) 19:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I have posted the above comment here, on archives, on archive box collapsible, and on WikiProject Templates. I couldn't think of anywhere else. MrKIA11 (talk) 20:10, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow, that's a lot of discussion to wade through just to find out what the point is in removing the width field. I happen to like the use of the field and don't see the point in removing it. The Village Pump would be a good place to alert the community to a discussion. Currently, as I'm opposed, that puts consensus as 66%. I think recent events have established that the community as a whole does not agree with 66% being an actionable consensus. Lara❤Love 00:26, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Because of this fiasco, I also agree that widthshould stay. This was what I originally thought, but the admin that I was discussing it with seemed to have valid points that I did not know. For anyone that cares, I have reincorporated it into my new archive box proposal. MrKIA11 (talk) 00:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Image linking, titles, etc.

For (mostly) aesthetic (but also functional) purposes I went through the template and converted the image code so that now users may set a link for the image. Also, this enables users to set their own image size for changed images, while they couldn't before. They can also set optional 'title' text that pops up when you hover over the image. Just notifying everyone of my changes. Cheers, Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP!☺} 18:52, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Float parameter

Currently, Mediawiki.css has infoboxes always float to the right. I'd like to add a parameter that allows left floating, which I think will help eliminate some whitespace issues on various pages. The code would read something like:

<!-- Template:Archive box begins -->{| class="infobox plainlinks" style="width:{{{box-width|238px}}};float:{{{position|right}}}"
| style="padding-top:4px; text-align:center;"| {{{image|[[Image:Replacement filing cabinet.svg|{{{image-width|40px}}}|Archive]]}}}'''<br />[[Help:Archiving a talk page|Archives]]'''
----
|-
|{{#switch:{{{auto|}}}|yes={{archive list}}|long={{Archive list long}}}}{{{1|}}}
|}<!--
-->{{voidd|{{Template:Archive box/box-width/{{#if: {{{box-width|}}}||un}}defined}}}}<!--
-->{{voidd|{{Template:Archive box/image/{{#if: {{{image|}}}||un}}defined}}}}<!--
-->{{voidd|{{Template:Archive box/image-width/{{#if: {{{image-width|}}}||un}}defined}}}}<!--
-->{{voidd|{{Template:Archive box/auto/{{#if: {{{auto|}}}||un}}defined}}}}<!--
-->{{voidd|{{Template:Archive box/1/{{#if: {{{1|}}}||un}}defined}}}}<!--
--><!-- Template:Archive box ends -->

Before I would make the change, I'd like some feedback or comments from the regulars here. Thanks. -- Avi (talk) 02:36, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I do not agree that it should be an option. There is not a big enough reason for it, and I think it is better for all of the boxes to be the same, on the right side. If it does end up being added, I would recommend having the parameter be float. MrKIA11 (talk) 02:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't sure if having the variable being the same as the parameter name may cause some issues,but if it's safe, it certainly is more convenient. Thanks. -- Avi (talk) 02:43, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Any other comments? -- Avi (talk) 05:17, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Additional item links

I'd like to add a parenthetical link to the specific revision that an archive represents, as shown in the following example:

• Archive 1 — 2006 Apr - Dec   (2006-11-25)

The current template does not allow me to specify anything past the closing "]]" brackets of the archive link; if anything is present, the archive list appears empty. Enclosing the link within the brackets does not work either. Is there a way to do this? — Loadmaster (talk) 19:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

root, links, nobr parameters now work in auto mode

When auto=yes, the optional root, links, and nobr parameters now pass on to {{archive list}}. When auto=long, the optional root parameter now passes on to {{archive list long}}. The documentation has also been updated. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 03:31, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Please edit the template so that root works when auto is not enabled. This is useful for collecting talk pages from multiple merged articles into a central location. SharkD (talk) 03:07, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

That's not possible. root gets passed to another template when auto is enabled. To have multiple roots, you would have to call the other template multiple times.

{{Archive box|
{{archive list|root=FIRST}}
{{archive list|root=SECOND}}
{{archive list|root=THIRD}}
}}

MrKIA11 (talk) 14:57, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Conditional color scheme

I added code to use the our talk page color scheme when the template is transcluded on talk pages (but not non-talk pages). Rjd0060 reverted with the edit summary "sorry; this looks horrible. perhaps a discussion should be necessary before changing".
So I'm initiating the requested discussion. I disagree with Rjd0060's opinion that our talk page color scheme "looks horrible," and I believe that the style guideline should be followed. —David Levy 04:36, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Can you make it conditional on both an input parameter and a talkspace? For now, make it change only if some new parameter, say, stdtalk, is "yes." In the future, make it change if either stdtalk=yes OR stdtalk is not no AND the namespace is an article talk page or perhaps any non-user talk page. Orange on user talk pages looks awkward, and people shouldn't log in to find the layout of their user talk pages mucked with.

In general, any change to the default behavior should be discussed before being implemented. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 05:45, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

1. The point is automation (the appropriate color scheme on every page without further intervention). For manual color scheme selection (which most users probably wouldn't care to bother with), it would be far more practical to have two separate templates.

2. It would be quite easy, however, to simply exclude user talk pages from the change (or to exclude them unless a parameter were specified in the manner that you suggested).

3. I disagree that it's necessary to discuss minor changes in advance (especially when they're made for the purpose of complying with guidelines), provided that the editor is prepared to respond to a reversion and/or complaint with good-faith discussion (not by reverting back and ignoring fellow editors). —David Levy 06:14, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

You were bold, and got pushback. Having the template up as an opt-in during the discussion period will help people see what it looks like while not changing all of Wikipedia. Once the discussion is over, if there aren't any major objections you can make it opt-out for most talk spaces, leaving it opt-in for user_talk. A color change from white to orange is a highly visible change and whether it is minor or not is a matter of personal opinion. Personally, I think the color should match that of the table of contents, but that's just me speaking. On article talk pages, maybe the TOC should be orange too, for consistency. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 06:27, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

1. Yes, I was bold and got reverted. That's why I'm here discussing this (and not reverting back, you'll notice). That's how it's supposed to work. I perform similar edits fairly often, and relatively few draw complaints. When they do, I'm more than happy to address them. If we were required to discuss such changes in advance, we'd get far less done around here.

And again, this edit was based upon a guideline with longstanding consensus (not on a whim). That we should use this color scheme for talk page templates already had been discussed and agreed upon. We aren't required to verify this decision for each individual talk page template.

2. As I noted, if the color scheme is to be optional to that extent, the most practical means of accomplishing this would be to simply fork the template into two separate versions. But the idea isn't for it to be optional; it's for it to be automatic (with the possible exception of user talk pages, for which considerably more leeway exists). Our namespace-specific color schemes exist for the community's benefit, and there's nothing to be gained by encouraging users to arbitrarily deviate from them in any of the non-user namespaces.

3. Your screen's colors might be off, as the boxes are supposed to be grey and tan (not white and orange).

4. Indeed, I have given some thought to the possibility of making talk page TOCs tan, but I'm not sure of the technical feasibility. —David Levy 06:55, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Your points are all valid. If only every article-editor was as polite as you are with respect to discussing rather than edit-warring. I think where you will have some disagreement is that the archive box, while technically a talk-page template, is more like a tomato, which technically is a fruit was taxed as a vegetable for legal reasons in the 1800s. Unlike traditional talk-space contents, the archive box serves a similar purpose as the table of contents - it helps users find specific comments. When the talk-page template guideline was created, I don't know if the individual editors and voters considered whether archive boxes "counted" or not. Regarding splitting the template, that might be the way to go, as might re-coloring TOC boxes in talk pages outside of user_talk. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 12:46, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

The scheme looked fine for Talk: pages, but this template is used on User talk: pages also, and doesn't look good. There should be an opt in/out for the color. It seems you are taking offense to my undoing, which you shouldn't be. This guideline doesn't apply to User talk: pages, AFAIK. - Rjd0060 (talk) 14:43, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

No, I'm not at all offended! You reverted and requested discussion, which is exactly what should be done when someone objects to a bold edit.

You're correct user talk pages needn't reflect the guideline. (There's no rule that they can't, of course.) As noted above, it would be very easy to exclude user talk pages from the change unless they're opted in. Would that be okay with you? —David Levy 14:58, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Most definitely. Sorry I didn't get to posting this last night; it was late when I undid your edit. I'm sure you understand that the color scheme fits perfectly well with Talk: pages, but really doesn't fit in User talk: pages. That is the only reason I removed it. I wasn't sure how to modify the code to be namespace specific. - Rjd0060 (talk) 15:01, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, no problem! I'll wait for further comment before editing the template again.  :-) —David Levy 15:06, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Idea for implementation: Add an optional style= parameter, which by default would be blank for user_talk pages and non-talk pages and "standard-talk" for other talk pages. If there is further pushback from the community the default can be made blank for all pages. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 15:50, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Ugh, I just noticed this on WT:VG and it does look horrible. Is there a parameter to go back to the old blank white colour that will actually work for this kind of talk page? Not to mention this... --.:Alex:. 10:48, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Horizontal line

Why was this removed? Is there any explanation? Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 02:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Other icons

{{edit protected}} Instead of listing random icons, the Other icons section could link or template-include commons:Category:Archive icons. --Damiens.rf 16:23, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

You can edit that yourself, at Template:Archive box/doc. Soxred 93 18:36, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Mangled first bullet point

Can anyone explain why the first bullet point in the archivebox at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (flags) isn't working right? — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 15:37, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

I believe the "1=" part isn't needed. I removed it and that fixed it. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 15:40, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, but having a malfunctional "1=" is probably going to be problematic. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 00:40, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Not really...it isn't called for in the template instructions :P -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 00:50, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I think you missed my meaning; templates that take open text fields need to use 1= (or something=) because without it certain characters will break the template's functionality. This is why {{WikiProjectBannerShell}} and so many other templates with open fields of this sort use 1=. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 06:59, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Adding link to Index?

Can this template be modified to link to "/Archive Index" when auto=yes and "/Archive Index" exists? I.e. if the archives are Archive 1, Archive 2, ... and there is a Archive Index article (as created by HBC Archive Indexerbot (talk · contribs)), the link to the Index will be displayed as well. I do not think that would be such a big change but very handy and I'd appreciate if someone with the skills for it could make such change. Regards SoWhy 08:11, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I like the idea, but would place the link differently than in your subpage. I wouldn't bold it and would have it floating right or left instead of centered. Also, I'd put it either directly above the archive links, or at the bottom of the box. Please see also the proposal at Template talk:Archive box collapsible#Google custom search. user:Everyme 13:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Related discussion

People interested in this template might want to get involved with a discussion I'm trying to start at Template_talk:Talkheader#Archive_option. GDallimore (Talk) 12:51, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Versions in other languages

I tried to add a link to the Spanish version of the template (es:Plantilla:Caja archivos) but I couldn't do it because it is blocked, does the template really need that much protection? I mean how are we supposed to add links to the other languages if it is blocked. Supaman89 (talk) 01:14, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

By adding it to the /doc page (as I did for this link). —Ms2ger (talk) 16:03, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Mbox classes

Please replace the template's first line with the following code:

<!-- Template:Archive box begins -->{| class="{{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|{{TALKSPACE}}|tmbox tmbox-notice tmbox-small|ombox ombox-notice ombox-small}} plainlinks" style="{{#if:{{{box-width|}}}|width:{{{box-width}}};}} {{{style|}}}"

Thanks. —Ms2ger (talk) 16:03, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. Stifle (talk) 10:08, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

For the consensus, please see {{Ombox}} and {{Tmbox}}. —Ms2ger (talk) 16:31, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Not done for now:Sorry, could you be more specific? Where is the thread where the consensus was reached? Also, what is the purpose of this change? That is, what will it change about the template? Thanks!--Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 14:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Consensus: Is indicated by the "We are deploying!" sections on both {{Ombox}} and {{Tmbox}}.

Purpose: make this template conform to the relevant message box standardizations.

Changes: AFAICT, only the margins and, on talk pages, the color of the border change slightly.

Thanks. —Ms2ger (talk) 07:57, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Changed. — Carl (CBM · talk) 23:00, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Could we make the text the same size as it used to be? Thanks. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 00:54, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. --Elonka 03:14, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I think you need to bug whoever "standardized" this. Mayber Ms2er will know more. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:16, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for the headsup. PS the editprotected above waan't mine. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 03:17, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

There is a way to do this, see Template:Archive box#Styles. —Ms2ger (talk) 09:04, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Box color

What happened? I just went to my talk page and suddenly my archive box is this horrible brown color. How do I change it back to white? لennavecia 03:29, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind. I just created my own. لennavecia 03:36, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Another problem with the new code though. It seems to no longer check where the template is at. IE Talk:, User talk:. The idea of using ombox is to make them (templates) more efficient not change their appearance dramatically. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 03:39, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

It's a terrible color for user talk pages that have designs. Is it possible to add a field to customize the background color? At this point, not a big deal. I just moved the code from yesterday to my user space and switched to that, but in case others want to go back to white or pale gray, as it were, they could have that option. لennavecia 04:15, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Explanation how to do this is now at Template:Archive box#Styles. This means you can design even more than with the previous version, which allowed only two different looks! —Ms2ger (talk) 09:04, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

But, everyone who liked the box the way it was shouldn't have to modify the template. Being modifiable is fine, but the original text size and colors shouldn't be messed with. I didn't see any consensus for these changes, §hep • ¡Talk to me! 16:27, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Search

This code will add a search box that will search the subpages of the page where it is included:

<inputbox>
type=fulltext
prefix={{FULLPAGENAME}}/
searchbuttonlabel=Search archives
</inputbox>

--—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 14:46, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Someone needs to add this. It's very useful. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 08:00, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Switch to the archive banner; it is already there. Timneu22 (talk) 10:59, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Can we put it on both? I've manually added it to all the pages I need it on, but I think people would benefit if every archive, using whichever template, had it. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:25, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I put up an experimental version of this at User talk:Jomasecu/Sand/ArchiveTest. The version I wrote does not alter current boxes. The search feature would only be added if the search=yes parameter were added. Jomasecu ^talk _contribs 21:57, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

{{editprotected}} I'd like to put my example at User talk:Jomasecu/Sand/ArchiveTest into use. As can be seen on that link, it would not change current usage of the template at all, but would allow the addition of a search=yes parameter. Please add the following after the line "}}{{{1|}}}".

{{#ifeq:{{{search}}}|yes|
<inputbox>
bgcolor=transparent
type=fulltext
prefix={{#if:{{{root|}}}|{{{root}}}|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}
break={{#if:{{{search-break|}}}|{{{search-break}}}|no}}
width={{#if:{{{search-width|}}}|{{{search-width}}}|22}}
searchbuttonlabel={{#if:{{{button-label|}}}|{{{button-label}}}|Search}}
</inputbox>}}

If this is done, I can add the appropriate parameter info to Template:Archive box/doc. Jomasecu ^talk _contribs 20:27, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Disabled for now, the additional parameters don't seem to work. —Ms2ger (talk) 20:38, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Please explain what exactly doesn't work. Jomasecu ^talk _contribs 20:43, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I may not have been clear before, the page User talk:Jomasecu/Sand/ArchiveTest is not the example template, but a page that demos it. The template is located at User:Jomasecu/Sand/Archive box. Jomasecu ^talk _contribs 20:53, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I've fiddled a bit more, and still can't find any parameters that don't work as expected. I believe Ms2ger's comment was caused by the misunderstanding as explained above, so I'm restoring the editprotect request. Jomasecu ^talk _contribs 23:32, 16 February 2009 (UTC) User:Jomasecu/Sand/Archive box

This box ({{User:Jomasecu/Sand/Archive box|button-label=PASS|search=yes}}) should have a button saying "PASS", shouldn't it? For me, it says "Search". I suspect you'll have to use {{#tag:}}. —Ms2ger (talk) 15:44, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I could have sworn that was working last night. I think I've figured it out now.

{{#ifeq:{{{search}}}|yes|
{{#tag:inputbox|
bgcolor=transparent
type=fulltext
prefix={{#if:{{{root|}}}|{{{root}}}|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}
break={{#if:{{{search-break|}}}|{{{search-break}}}|no}}
width={{#if:{{{search-width|}}}|{{{search-width}}}|22}}
searchbuttonlabel={{#if:{{{button-label|}}}|{{{button-label}}}|Search}}
}}}}

Working better this way? Jomasecu ^talk _contribs 17:19, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

That's it! I moved the code to the sandbox. Now we just need an admin.

{{editprotected}}

Please replace the template with the contents of the sandbox. Thanks. —Ms2ger (talk) 17:35, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

 Done Ruslik (talk) 19:59, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

collapsable

Can this be made collapsible, with hide / show "button" like navboxes have? 76.66.193.90 (talk) 12:34, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Template:Archive box collapsible. Jomasecu ^talk _contribs 17:50, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Extra space

{{editprotected}}

• Note: See my talk page for more info. MathCool10 ^{Sign here!} 01:21, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I can't quite figure out what you're requesting be done. You say that the template is creating a lot of space on your talk page. Can you describe exactly what changes you would like to fix your problem? Thanks. --CapitalR (talk) 07:49, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I've replied there. It doesn't appear to be a problem with the template logic; it's something to do with the way MathCool has transcluded the contents of his header page. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:57, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Merge to {{archives}}

I don't think there's any reason for these templates to coexist any more. They're functionally equivalent, except that {{archives}} detects archives by default and this one requires an attribute to be specified. Any thoughts? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 08:55, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I tried something like this once, however, and people didn't agree. I like {{archive banner}}, personally. Timneu22 (talk) 00:39, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Based on the documentation, this template appears to have a much broader set of parameters. A straight-up redirect would, no matter which one we used, lead to changes in existing uses. I could see making {{archives}} call this template with it's own options, but, frankly, I don't see the advantage in that. Jomasecu ^talk _contribs 23:41, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

The only thing which isn't supported in {{archives}} is the style overriding, which should be easy enough to add. I'll see what I can do in the sandbox. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:42, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I support efforts to consolidate these (and possibly other) archive templates. The current redundancy is confusing and unnecessary. —David Levy 14:57, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Update

Okay, this should be good to go. Have a look in the sandbox and see if you can find any issues - I've tested it across as many weird user talk configurations as I've been able to find. If there are no objections I'll raise an editprotected. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:26, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Go for it, but {{Archives}} should be protected first. —Ms2ger (talk) 19:33, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

That can be done at the same time. Seeing as we need admin intervention in the first place, I reckon we can kill two birds with one stone. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 00:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}

Requesting editprotected to carry out the above merge as there has been no opposition. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:37, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Done, thanks. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:31, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

This actually did break something, the first item in a list just gets a plain * (see for example the box at User talk:MSGJ). I seem to have fixed it in {{Archive box/sandbox}} by adding a space. Could the template be updated? —Ms2ger (talk) 19:18, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Done, thanks! --Amalthea 19:42, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

The doc seems to have been removed. Can this be transcluded again? Thanks. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:15, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Documentation is back, thanks. --Amalthea 11:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

• Other than a change in size and margins of the box, what exactly did this change accomplish? –xeno (talk) 00:51, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Any incremental improvement in these templates (such as search, a recent addition) has affected only ~50% of deployments because they were running on two separate code bases. It wasn't obvious that these templates were different. Other than one minor change in formatting, the output and parameters were identical. There is no reason to keep them running on two separate code bases, when they can be merged and have one codebase to collect all improvements in future. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:12, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Template:Archivebox

Resolved

 – Unforked, thanks Thumperward for restoring my archive box appearance to its former glory. –xeno (talk) 21:21, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

User:Xeno has decided he doesn't like our efforts to consolidate these redundant templates, and has created a fork at {{Archivebox}} (previously a redirect) for his own talk page. I suggest that this be undone asap; if User:Xeno wants a personalized box, he can create one in his user space. —Ms2ger (talk) 11:49, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, obviously. If he dislikes having a separate line for "about archives" instead of just linking the word "Archives" (which is the only change in output here) then that should be discussed here. Templatespace is not a home for personal forks at any rate. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:09, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

If you can make this version looks exactly as it does on my talk page through formatting/paramters, then so be it. The recent changes messed up the way it looks. (the increased margins made my line for 2008 wrap) and the extra line is a nuisance. See the comparison below. This isn't necessarily a "personal fork" either, thank you very much, I doubt I'm the only person who is annoyed at this recent change. –xeno (talk) 18:06, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

File:Archivediff.jpg

It is a personal fork if you create it without any discussion, affecting over a thousand other pages. —Ms2ger (talk) 18:49, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Those pages were using the old version, so the way I see it, I was restoring them to the way they were originally set. –xeno (talk) 18:51, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Restoring them against the consensus that was formed above, you mean. —Ms2ger (talk) 18:56, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, a couple people agreed it was a good idea, and here I am saying I don't like it (I see I'm not the only one). unfortuantely I didn't notice the discussion until after the change needlessly bloated my archive box. Care to address my complaints? –xeno (talk) 19:00, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

For the record, this change really screwed up my talk too. I have worked on a scrollable one which can be seen at my talk, which seems to work well. — neuro^{(talk)(review)} 19:35, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Rather than forking the whole template, how about just reducing the default padding on {{archives}}? This is pretty obviously the right solution in the long run. Here's the current sandboxed version of {{archives}}; I've removed a few class="mbox-text" attributes which were adding padding.

Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

That's great. Can we nix the bottom line (altogether or with a paramter) as well? I've made the changes to the sandbox to accomplish this. Can you review and I will implement if you think its ok? –xeno (talk) 12:36, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Seems fine to me, but I'd like to hear from others regarding whether losing those classes is okay (they shouldn't be doing anything except adding default styling, but there might be some semantic or other value I'm missing). Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:54, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Alright, sounds good. Thanks for helping with this. –xeno (talk) 13:06, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Archive index

Can someone do a |archive-index-auto=yes parameter, to do a transclusion of the index into the archivebox with an "edit" button?

76.66.196.218 (talk) 07:09, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Search won't work unless "root" is set to old directory

I could use some help. I tried to add the archive search function to Talk:List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming. I manually moved all the archives from

Talk:Scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming/Archive 1

to

Talk:List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming/Archive 1

and configured the index. However, the search function does not work unless I set

root=Talk:Scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming

Am I missing something? Or should I move the archives back where they where? Q Science (talk) 03:46, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

It started working. Thanks Q Science (talk) 16:40, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Display issue alongside {{s/wnote}}

This template is merging into {{s/wnote}}. (See my talk page for details.) Is it a problem with this template or {{s/wnote}}? —MC10|Sign here! 00:25, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

fixed. –xeno^talk 00:32, 14 June 2009 (UTC)