Template talk:Cite IUCN

Requested move 13 June 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Unopposed move (non-admin closure) buidhe 23:33, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

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• Module:Iucn → Module:Cite iucn

– Match name with template (the module is also used by Template:Make cite iucn, but the new name adequately describes that use as well) * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 01:35, 13 June 2020 (UTC) —Relisting.  ~ Amkgp 💬 17:58, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

@Pppery: I closed as move, but moved it back because apparently redirects don't work in module namespace. I ask you to implement in the move in such a way as to avoid breaking anything. buidhe 23:40, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 01:20, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

help at Molina's hog-nosed skunk

Hi. Could somebody give me an example fix of the "old form url" error at Molina's hog-nosed skunk? Thanks. Jason Quinn (talk) 14:43, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

@Jason Quinn: I don't understand. I didn't see an error, but have updated the reference to the latest IUCN assessment. The older assessment can be found at 2008 assessment.

There was a problem when the IUCN changed their url format and broke the links for a variety of IUCN templates. They left the oldversions at an oldredlist url for a while but then deleted that and added some redirects (but not for all pages). It was all a bit of a mess. This template was created to replace the old templates and provide a suitable link where possible. —  Jts1882 | talk  14:59, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Now I may understand and assume you are showing warnings as well as errors for citation templates. The iucn reference had |url=https://www.iucnredlist.org/details/41630/0 which is the oldstyle link. At least in this case they provided a redirect. The best fix is to use {{make cite iucn}} which takes the citation provided at the IUCN cite and converts to to a {{cite iucn}} reference that can be substituted. Use {{subst:make cite iucn|COPY AND PASTED CITATION|ref=iucn}} without the ref tags. This is what I used to update the citation. —  Jts1882 | talk  15:08, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! That's exactly what I need to know. Jason Quinn (talk) 01:17, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Broken error checks, no way of indicating erratas

I believe i have spotted a problem in the template. Usually an error message appears when the doi and the page code don't match. However, these are supposed to not match when an errata version is published - for an example, see this revision of Australian swamp rat (also look at the IUCN page, and compare it with a 'normal' IUCN reference like Brown bear. Currently there is no way of indicating an errata version in references, and therefore no way of making the ugly red error message go away. Could someone take a look at this? The easiest, worst way would be removing the error checks for doi and page mismatches, the best way would be adding new checks and assessments for indicating errata versions, and i guess a middle third way would be adding a new parameter that allowed users to opt out of the doi-page mismatch error check for that single reference. YuriNikolai (talk) 02:05, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

I have added support for |errata=. When that parameter has a year (from the parenthetical portion of the assessment's title), the assessment ID portion of the various identifiers may be different (taxon ID portion must still match), {{cite iucn}} will convert publication |year= or |date= to |orig-date= and add |date=<errata year>. I have also adjusted {{make cite iucn}} to extract errata year from the errata note in the assessment title and add |errata=<errata year> to the {{cite iucn}} template that it creates:

{{make cite iucn|Burnett, S., Menkhorst, P., Ellis, M. & Denny, M. 2016. Rattus lutreolus (errata version published in 2017). The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species 2016: e.T19343A115147713. https://dx.doi.org/10.2305/IUCN.UK.2016-3.RLTS.T19343A22440810.en. Downloaded on 08 August 2021.|x}}

{{cite iucn |author=Burnett, S. |author2=Menkhorst, P. |author3=Ellis, M. |author4=Denny, M. |year=2016 |title=''Rattus lutreolus'' (errata version published in 2017) |errata=2017 |volume=2016 |page=e.T19343A115147713 |doi=10.2305/IUCN.UK.2016-3.RLTS.T19343A22440810.en |access-date=8 August 2021}}

Burnett, S.; Menkhorst, P.; Ellis, M.; Denny, M. (2017) [errata version of 2016 assessment]. "Rattus lutreolus (errata version published in 2017)". IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. 2016: e.T19343A115147713. doi:10.2305/IUCN.UK.2016-3.RLTS.T19343A22440810.en. Retrieved 8 August 2021.title has extraneous text

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:37, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

This is perfect! Thank you very much for your work! YuriNikolai (talk) 21:34, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

remove support for |id= parameter

According to this search, there are only a dozen or so article that have {{cite iucn}} templates using |id=. I think that that parameter should go away. |id= is not a documented parameter and {{make cite iucn}} does not include it when it creates a {{cite iucn}} template from an IUCN example citation. Unless someone tells me that it is a foolish thing to do, I shall update the dozen or so articles that use |id= and then remove support for it from Module:Cite iucn.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:04, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

That's a legacy parameter used to create the url in my earliest version of the module, before you upgraded it to be fully compliant with the cite templates. Now most additions use {{make cite iucn}} so it's redundant. Besides about half those uses had template errors or gave dead links. I've updated them all using {{make cite iucn}}. —  Jts1882 | talk  15:19, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

You're faster than I am. |id= no longer supported.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:33, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Error in DOI check

The check in Module:Cite iucn for a DOI insists on it ending with ".en". However, there are valid DOIs, such as doi:10.2305/IUCN.UK.2020-3.RLTS.T36007A181631570.es, that do not end in this language code, so generate error messages. See Romeroa. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:18, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Odd. I wonder how many there are? The Spanish pages generally seem to use an .en doi. It seems likely to be a mistake at the IUCN end, unless it is new and there more. I've modified the regex to remove the error message. —  Jts1882 | talk  11:40, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

According to this search, about 165 articles; some of which, no doubt, use the same doi.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:25, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Two issues with {{make cite iucn}}

Been encountering a couple of issues...

1. When I attempt to subst: the template and then preview, it doesn't show the result, just the as-is template text.
2. Accessdate is not needed because we are using the doi. Please deprecate this to an optional field or drop it altogether.

Thanks! - UtherSRG (talk) 11:50, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Can you explain, step-by-step, just what you are doing when you attempt to subst: the template and then preview?

Is there discussion elsewhere that has established a consensus that the 'Accessed on' date from the IUCN plain-text citation should not be extracted and rendered as |access-date=?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:25, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

When I do {{make cite iucn|stuff}}, the preview shows the IUCN reference in its final format. When I subst: the template, the preview is just {{subst:make cite iucn|stuff}}.

As far as I understand things, the access date is for websites that can change over time. This is used so that when and if the website changes, we can continue to validate against the "as seen" version of the website. When an IUCN entry changes, it then has a new doi. The doi is what allows us to determine the "as seen" version of the data. The use of access-date in the {{cite iucn}} template seems to be a holdover from when this was treated as a website citation. I do not know of a discussion elsewhere on this. What is the rationale for keeping it? What is it used for other than as I described? Why isn't it used in other citation templates? - UtherSRG (talk) 14:53, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

On 1: The preview changed with the latest update, which makes sure the reference is readable on the saved page even if not substituted properly. The preview isn't as helpful when substituting (as there is nothing to preview) but the substitution still works as before.

On 2: I don't think the IUCN doi is fixed. If I remember correctly, it takes you to an updated (correction) page if there is one, which wouldn't be the one seen by the editor. If this is the case then the access date should be required. —  Jts1882 | talk  15:05, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

On 1: The preview used to be of the {{cite iucn}} template that would get generated. Perhaps the preview of the subst could be that? Oh... seeing below that it is because of the damned ref-tag bug. Nevermind... - UtherSRG (talk) 16:08, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

Is what you are really doing this:

<ref>{{make cite iucn|stuff}}</ref>

subst: does not work inside <ref>...</ref> tags (a very old bug; see see phab:T4700)

If I write this (outside of ref tags):

{{subst:make cite iucn|Gobush, K.S., Edwards, C.T.T, Maisels, F., Wittemyer, G., Balfour, D. & Taylor, R.D. 2021. Loxodonta cyclotis (errata version published in 2021). The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species 2021: e.T181007989A204404464. https://dx.doi.org/10.2305/IUCN.UK.2021-1.RLTS.T181007989A204404464.en. Accessed on 25 April 2023.}}

and preview, I get the properly rendered {{cite iucn}} template:

{{cite iucn |author=Gobush, K.S. |author2=Edwards, C.T.T. |author3= Maisels, F. |author4=Wittemyer, G. |author5=Balfour, D. |author6=Taylor, R.D. |year=2021 |errata=2021 |title=''Loxodonta cyclotis'' |volume=2021 |page=e.T181007989A204404464 |doi=10.2305/IUCN.UK.2021-1.RLTS.T181007989A204404464.en |access-date=25 April 2023}}

Gobush, K.S.; Edwards, C.T.T.; Maisels, F.; Wittemyer, G.; Balfour, D.; Taylor, R.D. (2021) [errata version of 2021 assessment]. "Loxodonta cyclotis". IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. 2021: e.T181007989A204404464. doi:10.2305/IUCN.UK.2021-1.RLTS.T181007989A204404464.en. Retrieved 25 April 2023.

If I write the same thing inside <ref>...</ref> tags, I get this:

Is that what is happening for you? If it is, drop the subst: prefix. Previews work correctly and AnomieBOT will be around in an hour or so to do the actual subtitution.

I remember some discussion (perhaps at WT:TOL) about how the IUCN doi doesn't change when assessments are updated(?) or it always redirects to the current assessment(?) It's all fuzzy to me now. I think that some reason like that was the rationale for having |access-date= in {{cite iucn}} renderings. You might want to dredge the WT:TOL archives and/or raise the topic there.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:25, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Yup... it's that pesky ref-tag bug. On the doi issue, I'll do some research.... - UtherSRG (talk) 16:09, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Use |ref=NAME to add a named ref tag, e.g.

{{subst:make cite iucn|Gobush, K.S., Edwards, C.T.T, Maisels, F., Wittemyer, G., Balfour, D. & Taylor, R.D. 2021. Loxodonta cyclotis (errata version published in 2021). The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species 2021: e.T181007989A204404464. https://dx.doi.org/10.2305/IUCN.UK.2021-1.RLTS.T181007989A204404464.en. Accessed on 25 April 2023. |ref=iucn}}

which previews as:

{{subst:make cite iucn|Gobush, K.S., Edwards, C.T.T, Maisels, F., Wittemyer, G., Balfour, D. & Taylor, R.D. 2021. Loxodonta cyclotis (errata version published in 2021). The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species 2021: e.T181007989A204404464. https://dx.doi.org/10.2305/IUCN.UK.2021-1.RLTS.T181007989A204404464.en. Accessed on 25 April 2023. |ref=iucn}}

and produces:

—  Jts1882 | talk  16:18, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

I think that your which previews as: example is flawed? When I preview that form, I get a {{cite iucn}} rendering, not a display of the raw (unprocessed) {{cite iucn}} template parameters or a display of the raw IUCN citation inside {{make cite iucn}} (your which previews as: example).

There really should be no pressing need to use subst: with or without |ref=NAME. Drop the subst: and let AnomieBOT do the substitution. Yeah it make take an hour or two but so what?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:40, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Roger, roger. - UtherSRG (talk) 18:36, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

References

Formatting changes

In the last couple of weeks I've noticed that the resultant citation deviates from the usual formatting of cite journal. It now puts |access-date= first, where it should be nearly last, and it has removed the spaces preceding the pipes, which, given the length of IUCN's page numbers (such as e.T62052925A62052928) leads to a wall of text effect and clunky text wrapping. The resultant citation should look as much as possible like the standard layout shown at {{cite journal}}. Abductive (reasoning) 08:31, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@Abductive: can you give an example? The examples in the documentation section seem to work fine. For example:

• {{cite iucn |author1=Sillero-Zubiri, C. |author2=Do Linh San, E. |year=2016 |title=''Mungos gambianus'' |journal=[[The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species]] |volume=2016 |page=e.T13922A45199653 |url=https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/13922/45199653 |doi=10.2305/IUCN.UK.2016-1.RLTS.T13922A45199653.en |access-date=2023-06-03 |name-list-style=amp}} →
  Sillero-Zubiri, C. & Do Linh San, E. (2016). "Mungos gambianus". The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. 2016: e.T13922A45199653. doi:10.2305/IUCN.UK.2016-1.RLTS.T13922A45199653.en. Retrieved 2023-06-03.

Are you subst'ing? Peter coxhead (talk) 08:53, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Costus woodsonii for example. Plus ones where I put the subst'd text in as I create the article. Check my recent article creations for more. Abductive (reasoning) 08:59, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@Abductive: if I now understand correctly, you are using {{subst:Make cite iucn|...}}, i.e. {{Make cite iucn}} not {{Cite iucn}}. If so, then this is an issue for Trappist the monk, because it's caused by the function make_cite_iucn in Module:Cite iucn which I see has been changed recently. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:14, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Template talk:Make cite iucn redirects here. I didn't notice that. Abductive (reasoning) 09:29, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Fixed I think.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:43, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 16 July 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 02:23, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

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• Template:Cite iucn → Template:Cite IUCN
• Template:Make cite iucn → Template:Make cite IUCN
• Module:Cite iucn → Module:Cite IUCN

– Capitalise abbreviation of proper name. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 04:29, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Meh; this seems like yet-another-make-work project without significant benefit to editors.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:10, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom. An argument that is essentially WP:AINTBROKE is a poor rationale to oppose a move, IMHO. That some of the correct versions are red suggests in fact the situation could use some work, as editors may be astonished to not find these at the correctly capitalized titles. Mdewman6 (talk) 22:40, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Thank you

This is a nice template that saves a lot of time. Thank you to those who put the work into this. Keep up the good work. SchreiberBike | ⌨  16:55, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Citing IUCN References

Greetings, fellow editors.

I am a fairly new Wikipedia editor and my goal is to help make knowledge on Australian parrots and Proteaceae species (especially the threatened species) more accessible to the general public, as many people rely on this site for information.

I have been making edits to some articles and am currently in the process of adding the IUCN Red List statuses to multiple Proteaceae genera, including Grevillea and Hakea, as well as adding additional information such as on distribution and threats from reliable sources to these articles.

However, after reading other, highly rated Wikipedia articles for advice on how to write, as well as reading the recommended citations for IUCN Red List assessment pages, I have noticed I am not citing my IUCN references correctly. It appears I have missed a lot of key information, such as the DOI number and assessors.

Would anyone please help advise me on how to correctly cite IUCN references for Red List Assessments on Wikipedia species pages?

I have revised one of my IUCN references for my edits to Hakea pulvinifera to fit what I have seen in other articles, but I'm still not sure if it is correct. The revised reference looks like this:

Barker, W.; Keith, D. (2020). "Hakea pulvinifera". The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species: e.T113088579A113309795. doi:10.2305/IUCN.UK.2020-3.RLTS.T113088579A113309795.en. Retrieved 15 December 2023.

Whereas the old reference looks like this, and was written in website format instead of the recommended journal format

"Hakea pulvinifera". The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. 2020. Retrieved 14 December 2023.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Lord.of.the.Proterozoic (talk) 09:40, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

The easiest way is to use {{make cite iucn|CITATION TEXT}}. Just copy the recommended citation from the IUCN page (click the two squares icon to the left), e.g.

You write: {{make cite iucn|Barker, W. & Keith, D. 2020. Hakea pulvinifera. The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species 2020: e.T113088579A113309795. https://dx.doi.org/10.2305/IUCN.UK.2020-3.RLTS.T113088579A113309795.en. Accessed on 19 December 2023.}}

It produces: Barker, W.; Keith, D. (2020). "Hakea pulvinifera". IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. 2020: e.T113088579A113309795. doi:10.2305/IUCN.UK.2020-3.RLTS.T113088579A113309795.en. Retrieved 19 December 2023.

A bot will then automatically substitute the citations with the {{cite iucn}} wikitext.—  Jts1882 | talk  12:54, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Lord.of.the.Proterozoic: Your best bet is to copy the IUCN reference from the link provided on the IUCN page and use {{make cite iucn}}. That will do everything for you. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:55, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

As Jts just said. XD - UtherSRG (talk) 12:56, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much everyone, I will use the make cite IUCN method to go back and correct my previous errors, as well as add IUCN citations to additional articles. If I have any trouble with it, I will let you know here. Lord.of.the.Proterozoic (talk) 02:04, 20 December 2023 (UTC)