Template talk:Inflation

Latest comment: 14 days ago by SounderBruce in topic Edit request 14 March 2024

GDP deflator for other countries edit

So what do we do for capital expenses that aren't US/UK? Just can't use the template? It seems like converting cost from back then -> USD -> inflate with US-GDP -> convert back to target currency is going to introduce a lot of inaccuracy. Or does the ballpark figure nature of all these estimates mean the inaccuracy is acceptable as long as you round to thousands/millions/etc.? 47.155.41.201 (talk) 22:20, 27 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

Seems to me (WP:OR is allowed in talk, though I didn't actually do any R) that for some things prices are global. When we hear about the price of oil, that is on the world market, and so such conversions should work. Then there is the Big Mac Index for comparing different countries. But many items are not globally traded, or have other reasons not to keep price parity. Gah4 (talk) 21:42, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Australian Pounds to Dollars edit

Hello. I'm just wondering how this template handles the fact that Australia switched from pounds, shillings and pence to decimal dollars in February 1966? I can't figure out the code, but from playing with it, for a sum before 1966 the template seems to apply a CPI deflator to a pound amount and then give you a pound amount result, even if the desired year is after the introduction of the dollar. Is that right? Pyrope 12:19, 29 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

That is likely, see the currency conversion section of the documentation. Zoozaz1 (talk) 11:23, 6 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
Thanks. I did look through as much of the documentation as I could find and this topic doesn't seem to be explicitly addressed. Pyrope 14:01, 10 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Template-protected edit request on 30 October 2023 edit

Please add the "current" year of the inflated prices 2022, associated with {{Inflation/VN/dataset}}, in {{Inflation/year}} for the new index VN, specifically:

| VN = 2022

NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 01:05, 30 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Done * Pppery * it has begun... 02:44, 30 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Template-protected edit request on 30 October 2023 (2) edit

Please add a footnote for the source of VN's CPI dataset in {{Inflation/fn}} per {{Inflation/doc/cpi-vn}}, that is:

| VN= {{#tag:ref|'''1995 to 2022''': [[World Bank]] Open Data, ''[https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FP.CPI.TOTL?end=2022&locations=VN&start=1995&view=chart Consumer price index]'' |name = "inflation-VN" |group={{{group|}}}}}

Thanks, NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 09:54, 30 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Done * Pppery * it has begun... 01:11, 2 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Weird output for France edit

Pppery, I am doing some work on 19th century French prices and I get some really weird output. This concerns France and probably other countries and as far as I understand it is about some very old conversions. I am asking you because I want to include inflation templates to article about Le Touquet, currently being developed in my sandbox. I need to include modern-day values of 19th-century land.

First of all, when I type in this:

{{inflation|FR|value=80000|start_year=1836|fmt=eq}}

I get "equivalent to $165,051,564 in 2022" (equivalent to $154,346,949 in 2020) but as we know, France does not use dollars, so this is already off.

Secondly, this sum is totally ridiculous because it would suggest that prices were that high, but were they? So for example, I have a source say that there was some land that was at that time moderately attractive (just a forest) but was considered for building a seaside resort. About 1880, a buyer approached to develop the land by buying it at 35,000 francs per 1 ha (2.5 acres). According to the template, this is equivalent to $81,236,024 in 2022, which is an astronomical sum - I mean, in the US you could easily buy 100 built homes in the suburbs with land more than 1 hectare, and at that time it was just a forest. To compare with how much it should have cost, we should remember that France was part of the Latin Monetary Union and so tied its currency to values of silver and gold. In 1878, according to the article, 100 francs were worth exactly 32.25806 g of .900 gold, which is 29.032254 g (0.9334086 ozt) of pure gold. 35,000 francs is then 10,161.2889 g (326.69302 ozt). I looked up today the price of gold and it's $1973 per troy ounce, so let's say for simplicity it's $2000 per troy ounce. 326.69302 ozt * $2000/ozt = $653386.04. The inflation template figure is off by two orders of magnitude. Which is a lot.

Similarly, I have an investor who bought 1,120 ha (2,800 acres) of functionally the same land (forest, near the sea) in 1902 for 870,500 francs, which the template says is equivalent to $2,579,339,291 in 2022. $2.4 billion dollars for that land sounds a bit like Trump arguing that Mar-a-Lago is worth $1 billion on the theory that people would shell out $950 million more just because he's Trump.

Do something about it please. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 11:13, 15 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

The template get its data from Template:Inflation/FR/dataset, which was edited by Zoozaz1 and Czar. They probably have a better idea what's going on here than I do, as my involvement in this template series has only been responding to edit requests. * Pppery * it has begun... 00:11, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply
Szmenderowiecki, the template tracks only changes in the price index; it is currency agnostic. My suspicion is that this is the cause of your issue. The output is not in dollars; it is just a measurement of changes in price indices in France from the inputted date to 2020, discounting changes in currency or currency redenomination (as far as I am aware). In other words, it measures long-term inflation and discounts changes in a currency's value (or the currency itself) imposed from above (this is not necessarily true for all countries in the inflation template, I do think some adjust for this). To give the most obvious example, the exchange rate in the 1999 switching from the franc to the euro is 6.5 francs for 1 euro; the price index does not factor that in. The 1960 devaluation was 100 old francs to 1 new franc. Factoring that in, the total becomes 116,872.871 euros today for the 1880 land purchase. There may be other currency changes/devaluations over the time period I am not aware of that should be considered. This is discussed in the currency conversion section of the documentation. Ideally this would be integrated into all the templates.
Another aspect to be aware of it is that, generally, the templates track the CPI, price indices of consumer goods. This is not to say it is useless when it comes to land, but that is another factor that will distort the accuracy/decrease the "correctness" of the result.
Not sure why it displays in dollars though, perhaps remove the "fmt=eq" and type it manually with the correct currency instead. Zoozaz1 (talk) 01:36, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply
Zoozaz1 Well I think the denomination and conversion to euros should be in fact made here because France no longer uses the franc, and so your dataset should be really limited to 1999 or 2002, depending on the date you consider that France has adopted the euro. You mention that your data from 1904 is from INSEE's dataset (actually there's an updated one), but I also used this converter to see the values. There, 870500 francs in 1902 are worth €3,716,124.11 in purchasing power, which makes a lot more sense.
I think that in this case, you should update the doc of this template to mention that the values presented here do not account for denominations or for mandatory conversions to other currencies, so maybe using fmt in general is kinda misleading for these cases and the template should warn against such inferences. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 10:16, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply
Szmenderowiecki, The doc does mention this in the currency conversion section. The datatset has the same information as the INSEE; that is why your number of 2,412,053,184/6.5 = 371085105, and 371085105/100=3710851.05, which is effectively the same as in the converter. Zoozaz1 (talk) 10:54, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply
So I resolved this issue with code of type:
{{circa}} €{{#expr:({{Inflation|FR|35000|1880|r=2}} / (100*{{FixedEuroRate|FRF}})) round -3}} in {{Inflation/year|FR}}

, which gives c. €124000 in 2022 (for a 35,000 franc purchase in 1880), but then it is impossible to introduce fmt=c into the inflation template expression because the software that processes this expression starts swearing about unexpected commas in the output. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 10:49, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Edit request 16 November 2023 edit

Description of suggested change: In the French part, please substitute the old dataset of inflation values with a new dataset. I also updated the values from the dataset to include 2021 and 2022

Diff: In Inflation/fn:

'''1904 to 2020''': [[Institut national de la statistique et des études économiques]], ''[https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/serie/001643154 Coefficient de transformation de l'euro ou du franc d'une année, en euro ou en franc d'une autre année – Base 1998série arrêtée]''
+
'''1904 to 2022''': [[Institut national de la statistique et des études économiques]], ''[https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/serie/010605954 Coefficient de transformation de l'euro ou du franc d'une année, en euro ou en franc d'une autre année – Base 2015Série utilisée par le convertisseur franc-euro Identifiant 010605954]''

Szmenderowiecki (talk) 13:38, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

In Inflation/year:

FR = 2020
+
FR = 2022
  Done * Pppery * it has begun... 02:19, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Edit request 16 November 2023 edit

Description of suggested change: Australian inflation data updated to 2022

Diff: In Inflation/AU/fn

AU = '''1850-1899''': McLean, I.W. (1999), ''[[doi:10.1111/1467-8446.00036|Consumer Prices and Expenditure Patterns in Australia 1850–1914]]''. [[Australian Economic History Review]], 39: 1-28. For later years, Australian Consumer Price Inflation figures follow the Long Term Linked Series provided in Australian Bureau of Statistics (2011) ''6461.0 Consumer Price Index: Concepts, Sources and Methods, 2011'' as explained at §§3.10–3.11; this series comprises "from 1901 to 1914, the A Series Retail Price Index; from 1914 to 1946–47, the C Series Retail Price Index; from 1946–47 to 1948–49, a combination of the C Series Index, excluding rent, and the housing group of the CPI; and from 1948–49 onwards, the CPI." (3.10). Retrieved May 4, 2015|name="inflation-AU"|group={{{group |}}}
+
AU = '''1850-1901''': McLean, I.W. (1999), ''[[doi:10.1111/1467-8446.00036|Consumer Prices and Expenditure Patterns in Australia 1850–1914]]''. [[Australian Economic History Review]], 39: 1-28 (taken W6 series from Table A1, which represents the average inflation in all of Australian colonies). For later years, calculated using the [https://www.rba.gov.au/calculator/annualPreDecimal.html pre-decimal inflation calculator] provided by the [[Reserve Bank of Australia]] for each year, input: £94 8s (94.40 Australian pounds in decimal values), start year: 1901.|name="inflation-AU"|group={{{group |}}}

}}

In Inflation/year

AU = 2018
+
AU = 2022

Updated in this edit. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 14:58, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Done * Pppery * it has begun... 02:19, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Edit request 16 November 2023 edit

Description of suggested change: Update the data for Denmark, from 2008 to 2022

Diff: In Inflation/DK/fn:

Kim Abildgren (2010) ''[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03585520903298184 Consumer prices in Denmark 1502–2007]'', Scandinavian Economic History Review, 58:1, 2-24
+
'''1502 to 2007''': Kim Abildgren (2010) ''[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03585520903298184 Consumer prices in Denmark 1502–2007]'', Scandinavian Economic History Review, 58:1, 2-24, '''2008 to 2022''': Statistics Denmark, [https://www.statbank.dk/pris8 Consumer price index, annual average (1900=100) by time]

in Inflation/year:

DK = 2007
+
DK = 2022

Updated in this edit Szmenderowiecki (talk) 15:31, 16 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Done * Pppery * it has begun... 02:19, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Generate footnote automatically? edit

Is there a way to do the equivalent of

({{Inflation|index=US|value=x|start_year=y}}{{Inflation/fn|US|group=note}}

without having to explicitly invoke both templates? Something like

({{Inflation|index=US|value=x|start_year=y|group=note}}

would be simpler. Is that possible? RoySmith (talk) 16:13, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

also... edit

Since I'm here, is there a nicer way to do this:

$1 million (equivalent to ${{format price|{{inflation|US|1000000|1908}}}} in {{Inflation/year|US}}),{{Inflation/fn|US|group=note}}

which is a mouthful. RoySmith (talk) 15:43, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

  • RoySmith, I think I've got a similar issue—I want my inflation equivalency to be in a note (|group=note}}) rather than a ref. Have you already achieved that or have I misunderstood the issue you raise here? Happy noo year! ——Serial 20:07, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
    @Serial Number 54129 Sadly, I have not. RoySmith (talk) 20:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
    Ah! Sorry. @Pppery sorry to bother you, but any thoughts on this? Much appreciated if you can help 👍 ——Serial 20:23, 2 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
    You can pass |group=note to {{Inflation/fn}}. RoySmith already did that above. There's no way of doing what RoySmith listed above in one template call that I can see right now. * Pppery * it has begun... 00:02, 3 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Template-protected edit request on 30 November 2023 edit

Please change

| USGDP
| US-GDP
| US-CAP = 2021

to

| USGDP
| US-GDP
| US-CAP = 2022

Titan877 (talk) 07:45, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Completed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 12:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Template-protected edit request on 30 November 2023 (2) edit

Please change

| USGDP|US-GDP|US-CAP = {{#tag:ref|{{cite web |first1= Louis |last1= Johnston |first2= Samuel H. |last2= Williamson |title= What Was the U.S. GDP Then? |url= http://www.measuringworth.com/datasets/usgdp/ |work= MeasuringWorth |year= 2023 |accessdate= {{#if:{{{df|}}}|1 January 2023|January 1, 2023}} |name-list-style = {{{name-list-style|}}} |mode= {{{mode|}}} |postscript = {{#ifeq: {{{mode|}}} | cs2 |.}}<!--sets a terminal period if needed.--> }} United States [[Gross Domestic Product deflator]] figures follow the ''Measuring Worth'' series. |name="inflation-USGDP" | group ={{{group |}}}}}

to

| USGDP|US-GDP|US-CAP = {{#tag:ref|{{cite web |first1= Louis |last1= Johnston |first2= Samuel H. |last2= Williamson |title= What Was the U.S. GDP Then? |url= http://www.measuringworth.com/datasets/usgdp/ |work= MeasuringWorth |year= 2023 |accessdate= {{#if:{{{df|}}}|30 November 2023|November 30, 2023}} |name-list-style = {{{name-list-style|}}} |mode= {{{mode|}}} |postscript = {{#ifeq: {{{mode|}}} | cs2 |.}}<!--sets a terminal period if needed.--> }} United States [[Gross Domestic Product deflator]] figures follow the ''Measuring Worth'' series. |name="inflation-USGDP" | group ={{{group |}}}}}

Titan877 (talk) 07:47, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Completed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 12:34, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Feature request: automatic r= edit

The documentation for this template says inflation is not accurate to better than 1% or so. The output ought to be automatically rounded off to 2 or 3 significant figures if the r= parameter is not provided.

Note there is no value of r= that means "2 significant figures". You have to look at the inflated output and calculate the right r= value. {{Convert}} has more useful controls. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 19:33, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Edit request 6 January 2024 edit

Per WP:CITEBUNDLE, the footnotes generated from {{Inflation/fn}} should either use a bulleted list or {{multiref}} to improve readability and accessibility. Is that change possible? voorts (talk/contributions) 19:27, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: please make your requested changes to the template's sandbox first; see WP:TESTCASES. Primefac (talk) 21:05, 11 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Default Output of Inflation Template edit

Moved from help desk

The Inflation Template returns an error if the date is out of range.

Can this be avoided, such that it returns the input value as if inflation was 0 (or another reasonable value)?

edit: This is a problem in this page (in the section for Hulu). It would be easier for editors if it just showed the real value until the data is eventually added (or if it got edited autmatically).


Garvey 96 (talk) 13:33, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Garvey 96: Hi there! When having an issue with a template, I suggest posting on the template's talk page first, preferably with an example. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 21:58, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
Returning an error seems like the right approach. Returning a value makes it seem like the input, and therefore the output, is valid when it is not. Mathglot (talk) 04:59, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
I think that errors should only be shown to editors and not to viewers of the page. Garvey 96 (talk) 09:34, 10 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
Showing an error message to our readers may be ugly, but showing them erroneous information and pretending it's real is far worse. RoySmith (talk) 15:23, 10 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
This looks like an functional error in the template to me. To take an example:
  • {{Inflation|US|8,610,000,000|2021|fmt=c|r=-6}} results in 9,298,000,000
  • {{Inflation|US|8,610,000,000|2022|fmt=c|r=-6}} results in 8,610,000,000
  • {{Inflation|US|8,610,000,000|2023|fmt=c|r=-6}} results in Error when using {{Inflation}}: |start_year=2023 (parameter 3) is greater than the latest available year (2022) in index "US".
  • {{Inflation|US|8,610,000,000|2024|fmt=c|r=-6}} results in 8,610,000,000
The template should not be producing an error for 2023, and editors shouldn't be expected to work around this. The 2021 and 2022 indeces work, but only inflate to 2022. The 2024 index is the only that would read as correct to the reader, signifying that there has been no inflation between 2024 and 2024. There is no reason to make 2023 return an error value, because the problem will be fixed once the inflation figures are released for 2023. The problem only occurs because there is a bit of a lag in the data. What you are going to get is editors introducing hacks by adding unadjusted figures to lists and tables to avoid getting an error message, meaning that the numbers won't update through the years. Betty Logan (talk) 09:43, 11 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Template-protected edit request on 29 February 2024 edit

Per https://www.minneapolisfed.org/about-us/monetary-policy/inflation-calculator/consumer-price-index-1800-, we can add a 2023 row. The 2023 value should be 915.6. Snowman304|talk 02:23, 29 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Done Modified Template:Inflation/fn as well. SWinxy (talk) 20:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Edit request 2 March 2024 edit

Description of suggested change: In the diff, I updated Finnish inflation data to 2023. I request changes to {{Template:Inflation/year|FI}} to update the year to 2023, and change the source for the data to this datasheet from Statistics Finland

Diff: [1] Szmenderowiecki (talk) 19:02, 2 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Further edit request edit

Description of suggested change: Sources in many countries refer to the following citation: Afterwards, Coos Santing, 2007, Inflation 1800-2000, data from OECD, Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, Economic Outlook. Historical Statistics and Mitchell, B. R. International Historical Statistics, Africa, Asia and Oceania 1750-1993 London : Macmillan ; New York : Stockton, 1998, International Historical Statistics, Europe 1750-1993 London : Macmillan ; New York : Stockton, 1998, and International Historical Statistics, The Americas 1750-1993 London : Macmillan ; New York : Stockton, 1998

The data link returns a 404 error, change it to [2] Szmenderowiecki (talk) 19:27, 2 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Edit request 2 March 2024 edit

Description of suggested change: Added new values from 1991 to 2023 provided by Rosstat. This obviates the need for the source that is only for 1991-1992 and updates Russia's inflation rates to 2023. Changes are requested to /year template from 2007 to 2023 and to /fn part to reflect changed sources.

Diff: [3] Szmenderowiecki (talk) 20:16, 2 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Szmenderowiecki, entirely up to you if you want to do this, but since you're updating Russian inflation statistics and are a Russian speaker, if you have the time it would be quite helpful if you could add the data in this document, which I can't read, to the template if it provides anything useful (it also seems more reliable than the current National Economy of Russia source). Zoozaz1 (talk) 00:32, 3 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Absolutely, will look into that. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 15:48, 4 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Zoozaz1 Here I found a downloadable and better searchable version of this paper, but even though the scope of work is admirable, each of the components is assessed separately (so prices on grains, clothing, metals, salt etc.). There is no one CPI measure in this work, and calculating it ourselves will definitely be verboten.
Also, this work only covers the XVI century. There's a lot of economic literature listed here that may be useful for the XVII century but I will have to read it when I have time. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 17:14, 4 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
I see, that's unfortunate. When you get around to looking through the books listed there, let me know if you can't find a copy, I should be able to find it. Zoozaz1 (talk) 00:03, 6 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
No luck finding inflation data. Just read through all books. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 01:15, 6 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Edit request 2 March 2024 edit

Description of suggested change: Added new values from 2022 to 2023 provided by Eurostat; also, I changed the source to Eurostat instead of the Federal Reserve citing Eurostat. Changes are requested to /year template from 2021 to 2023 and to /fn part to reflect changed sources.

Diff: [4] Szmenderowiecki (talk) 20:48, 2 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Update requested for US 2023 data edit

Template is not yet showing US data adjusted to 2023. See the examples on Template:Inflation/doc that are like {{Inflation|US|...|fmt=eq|...}} which are still rendering as "in 2022" rather than "in 2023". I see that Template:Inflation/US/dataset has been updated with 2023 data, but I think that also Template:Inflation/year still needs to be updated for 2023? Thanks. netjeff (talk) 19:30, 10 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Edit request 14 March 2024 edit

Description of suggested change: Adding a link to MeasuringWorth and fixing the second use of Measuring Worth (note the space, which should not be there) for the US citation in Template:Inflation/fn.

Diff:

http://www.measuringworth.com/datasets/usgdp/ |work= MeasuringWorth |year= 2023
+
http://www.measuringworth.com/datasets/usgdp/ |work= [[MeasuringWorth]] |year= 2023
United States [[Gross Domestic Product deflator]] figures follow the ''Measuring Worth'' series.
+
United States [[Gross Domestic Product deflator]] figures follow the ''MeasuringWorth'' series.

SounderBruce 00:11, 14 March 2024 (UTC)Reply