Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/South Park (season 24)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to The Pandemic Special. Firm consensus that, at the moment, the redirect is logical, without significantly more information on the season as a whole. Obviously if and when season 24 comes into being it can be re-created. Nosebagbear (talk) 13:38, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

South Park (season 24) edit

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

As per talk page discussion at Talk: The Pandemic Special#Season premiere or standalone special?, Season 24 of South Park is not yet officially announced. This article uses one video link (which is discussed on the talk page) to attempt to justify this position. The article for The Pandemic Special has at least 6 other sources including the official press release from Comedy Central that all agree that the episode is a stand-alone special, and not the start of Season 24. This article should be deleted and salted. SanAnMan (talk) 04:06, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. SanAnMan (talk) 04:06, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. Toughpigs (talk) 04:28, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Do not delete. As the OP himself wrote: "South Park Press Release: 'a one-hour special event', no mention whatsoever about a new season". So? Not mentioning something doesn't mean it's a "hoax" as you falsely claimed. If you want to see what Comedy Central says about season 24, you could go to their web page for it and see that it definitely does exist. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:11, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Chipmunkdavis: who undid the db-hoax tag. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:15, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't Comedy Central's website seem bugged? According to it, there are a dozen first episodes for season 22, and apparently season 23 has no episodes. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 20:48, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also none of the episode names in other seasons seem to match up with our articles. Eg I looked at episode list at List_of_South_Park_episodes and cross-referenced with Comedy Central's list for "season 22" and "season 24" and we don't have any of the episode titles that they do. So seems like a total mismatch. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 20:50, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep. I removed the db-hoax tag because the content clearly reflected the TechRadar source, which posits the confirmation of seasons 24-26, and thus was not eligible for the CSD. I don't know if I would have created this article with the current sourcing, but if it is deleted it'll likely just be recreated in the near future. Certainly, it shouldn't be salted. If more sources were found, my keep would be stronger. CMD (talk) 04:48, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to The Pandemic Special, per the first sentence of that article which indicates that the special "is not considered to be the premiere of the 24th season, which has yet to be announced". If season 24 hasn't been announced then it does not exist, and if we take the supposedly minority view that the special is the first episode(s) of the 24th season, then there's no other information available on the season than what's already included in the article on the special. Either way, a reader trying to look for information on South Park's 24th season by going to this title will find the information they're looking for in the special's article, until such time as there's anything to say about the season separate from the special. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 19:50, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I mostly also agree with the reasoning by Ivanvector. As for the outcome, it depends. Will a season 24 exist (ie, has it been announced)? The answer to this changes the outcome. If announced, keep the article. If not, delete it. I'm not sure a redirect is appropriate, since, well, it's not a season (and we don't do this for other specials); a redirect feels a bit misleading/surprising. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 20:45, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ProcrastinatingReader, South Park Studios, their wiki, and Comedy Central all call this season 24. I'm not sure what constitutes an announcement but that seems pretty solid to me. Additionally, I don't know how things get listed at places like the iTunes Store but that also lists this as season 24--I'm assuming that they get their information from the publisher and don't just make up stuff but what do I know? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:32, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I addressed the comment about their website above. What do reliable sources call it? It is a season, or just a special (in the sense of how we format the special of Black_Mirror#Episodes). ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 21:34, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ProcrastinatingReader, I have pointed you to several reliable sources that say that this is the beginning of season 24. There are two more in the article itself stating the same thing. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:28, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Which two specifically, and can you provide the relevant quote? The closest I can see at a skim is the Tech Radar quote, but even they seem to say it's unclear. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 22:32, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ProcrastinatingReader, The first two: they also include quotations explicitly stating this. Copy/paste: Kemp, Ella (October 1, 2020). "Go Behind the Scenes of the South Park Pandemic Special". NME. Retrieved November 15, 2020. "The episode launched season 24, and is the show’s first one-off, hour-long release." Martin, Anne (September 16, 2020). "South Park Pandemic Special to Air Sept. 30". United Press International. Retrieved November 15, 2020. "'The Pandemic Special' will serve as the show's Season 24 premiere." ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:42, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, thanks for clarifying. Some of those contradict the RS provided by SanAnMan at Talk:The_Pandemic_Special#Season_premiere_or_standalone_special?. Overall, it appears there is no consensus amongst reliable sources on the status of this episode, and of the 24th season, and similarly there is no wiki consensus (at present) on the matter either. Would that be a fair summary of the situation? ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 22:54, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ProcrastinatingReader, I don't know that it is to the extent that 1.) some of his sources are not in any way contradicted and 2.) I don't know that some of these sources are reliable. Otherwise, yes, as I pointed out in my edit that he undid, removing reliable sources with no consensus and in order to push a POV on the article. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:28, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Quote from Koavf: "I don't know that some of these sources are reliable." What a ridiculous statement. You're basically claiming that cites from CNN, Entertainment Weekly, Den of Geek, IGN, and Decider are all questionable sources? Wow. I'll admit that the press release from Comedy Central about "The Pandemic Special" doesn't specifically state that the episode isn't the season premiere, but it also doesn't state that it is. However, it does clearly state that the episode is a "special event", which is distinctly different from the language used in other press releases by South Park/Comedy Central that are about episodes (see for example this press release from the finale of Season 23). Notice how this press release repeatedly uses the term "episode" and distinctly states that it is part of season 23. For every season in the past, South Park has released an official press release stating the start of the new season, see this press release and this other press release for the most recent examples. Your argument that the season has started relies mainly on this video link and two other secondary news aggregation sites. Video collection sites, yes even those from the company and sites like iTunes, have been flawed in the past. IGN and Den of Geek have been the primary sources of critical review for South Park for many years, and I would trust them implicitly when they state that the season hasn't started yet. Add to that the difference in the press releases, plus the fact that there hasn't been an official press release announcing the new season premiere, and I stand by my view that the season has not started and that this article is in error. - SanAnMan (talk) 13:45, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SanAnMan, Correct, I am saying that I have no idea what "Den of Geek" is and why you think what it says somehow overrides Comedy Central, South Park Studios, the iTunes Store, UPI, and Tech Radar. Please explain. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:23, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Koavf Suggest you take a look at Den of Geek for information about the website; they have been regularly posting critical reviews about South Park for years. As for your sources, you do not have a single source from Comedy Central that supports your view, you have one video link from South Park Studios which, as explained, is most likely in error, as is iTunes. UPI and Tech Radar are news aggregate sites that do not cover South Park regularly and the fact is that sometimes news sources get their information wrong. As stated above, it's the summation of all the information -- the difference in press release statements, the lack of an official press release about the launch of S24, and the sources that deal with South Park on a regular basis all agreeing that this episode was not the launch of S24. - SanAnMan (talk) 20:22, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SanAnMan, "you do not have a single source from Comedy Central that supports your view": https://southpark.cc.com/seasons/south-park/wjz4g1/season-24 This is another example of your poor judgement or sloppiness or willful misconstrual of facts. Choose whichever one you want. Why do you think that South Park Studios are "most likely in error" about their own show?! And iTunes as well? Why do you think that the UPI are more likely to get their fact wrong than "Den of Geek"? Do please note that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Eagerly looking forward to you answering all of these questions: should be interesting. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:42, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Koavf You seem to think that your one video source (which I credited you for above) counts as being two sources from both South Park Studios and Comedy Central directly. I consider South Park Studios to be a separate subsection of Comedy Central. And I've already explained my other sources already, so I'm not going to argue this any more with you. You have your opinion; I have mine. We'll let the AfD commenters make the final decision. So far, the votes seem to be leaning toward a Redirect which I have no problem supporting. I won't be answering any more of your accusations or arguments. - SanAnMan (talk) 21:26, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SanAnMan, Oh what BS. You never once explained anywhere why you think "Den of Geek" is more reliable than Comedy Central themselves. You have never posted anywhere any reasoning for why iTunes is "likely in error". This is just a lie. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:30, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@QuestFour:, @SNUGGUMS:, @Grapesoda22:, @Spiderpig662:, all of whom have been frequent contributors to multiple South Park articles. - SanAnMan (talk) 13:51, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to The Pandemic Special like Ivanvector wrote. Premature to have an article when the season hasn't formally begun, and that other page does allude to that (even if just briefly). Hard to say when it shall begin. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 14:08, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to The Pandemic Special. GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 16:12, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per the above. QuestFour (talk) 21:29, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect mostly per Ivanvector except that I don't care whether The Pandemic Special is actually part of season 24. If it's the premier, that's fine. The article can be updated to reflect this based on discussion on the article talk page. However with no other information about season 24 nor any (other?) episodes of season 24 with known close air dates, the article isn't useful. Any info currently in the article that is significant can go into the main South Park article or List of South Park episodes. The redirect could be changed if people feel that would be useful. Nil Einne (talk) 05:26, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: In an attempt to compromise and show good faith, I have changed the top of The Pandemic Special to reflect the contention and debate as to whether or not the episode is or is not the debut of the season. I believe this reflects a fair and accurate statement of the debate going on, and I have included cites from both sides of the argument, including the cites given in this article. - SanAnMan (talk) 14:32, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to The Pandemic Special per the reasons above. I think it's too early, the article can be expanded at a later date when/if Season 24 debuts. Spiderpig662 (talk) 18:00, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.