Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Toranjestan Soroush (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. After much-extended time for discussion, a consensus for deletion has emerged. BD2412 T 01:41, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Toranjestan Soroush edit

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This article was nominated for deletion previously, and the argument to keep was that the corresponding article on Persian Wikipedia had sources potentially indicating notability, and that the English article could be expanded from that. However since then, the article on Persian Wikipedia has been deleted for lack of notability (link to discussion). the wub "?!" 09:57, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 09:58, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep That Afd was a clear mistake of the admin. 4 of 5 users participating believed that it should be kept. The coverage by media is evident. Ali Pirhayati (talk) 10:07, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning Keep - A review of the sources:

An interview by the Young Journalists Club. Not independent.
An account of an opening ceremony of another shop by the publishers who own the shop that is the subject of this article. The content regarding the Toranjestan Soroush appears to be entirely sourced to the CEO of the publiushing company. Not independent.
A Janaonline.ir news story about the closing of the shop. I think this qualifies as independent WP:SIGCOV
A fars.ir news story that is not accessible for me at the present time.

I can't access that last piece but assuming it is another news story similar to the Javanonline.ir story this is just about a keep for WP:ORG as these are multiple instances of WP:SIGCOV from national-level news organisations. Worth noting that the Persian wiki close was a merge to another article (Soroush Publications) that we do not have a corresponding version of. FOARP (talk) 10:55, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Sun8908 _Talk 12:36, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There need to be more clarity over how this exactly passes GNG.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kichu🐘 ^{Need any help?} 06:39, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 18:01, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I agree with the analysis of sources above, none meet the criteria for establishing notability as per WP:NCORP. HighKing⁺⁺ 19:54, 10 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Bold third relist to allow for further analysis of the sourcing.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 02:45, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment In response to the request for a further analysis of sources. The criteria for establishing notability for companies/organizations is WP:NCORP and applies a stricter interpretation of requirements than for other topics and GNG. In short, WP:NCORP requires multiple sources (at least two) of deep or significant coverage with in-depth information *on the company* and (this bit is important!) containing "Independent Content". "Independent content", in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. That means, nothing that relies on company information or announcements or interviews, etc. My analysis of the available references (only 3 of the 4 are available):
- This from Young Journalist Club reports to say that Hojjaloleslam Seyed Ibrahim Raisi visited the bookstore in an unofficial visit on the eve of Book Week and spoke with the booksellers. It reports that the store manager explained and answered questions. The article provides no information on the company itself and fails WP:CORPDEPTH.
- This from jjo.ir reports on the opening ceremony of an entirely different bookstore and contains quotes from the owner of this company. There is no in-depth information on this company, failing CORPDEPTH, and the small bits of information that have been provided are sourced to the CEO, failing WP:ORGIND
- This from Javanonline.ir is a news story about the bookstore where it had been announced the previous week that the store was to close but that the problems were resolved and it was not going to close. It contains a quote from the store manager. It contains almost no information about the company, failing WP:CORPDEPTH and whatever information is available is sourced from the manager, failing WP:ORGIND.

I cannot locate any references that meet the criteria for establishing notability. "Coverage" by media and "mentions" are not criteria for keeping. HighKing⁺⁺ 17:30, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete. The coverage is week, but is there. I'd generally vote delete but maybe we should consider WP:SYSTEMICBIAS. That said, this is just a single bookstore that seems to have gotten a piece about being opened and maybe being closed in local media... rather on the wrong side of GNG I am afraid. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:37, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The article says "It is known as one of the most successful models of bookselling in Iran" with 4 references all in Persian script. The analysis above says that 2 references were not independent and one was not possible to open. That leaves us with one reference left, which is not enough to convince me that this is "one of the most successful models of bookselling in Iran". The bookstore was only founded in 2012, and according to User:Piotrus it may even be closed? Dr. Universe (talk) 05:45, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Dr. Universe, One of the refs I translated talked about the store facing the possibility of being closed due to bad business, although it was not closed at that time. Anyway, amusing contradiction - model bookshop with being closed due to low sales... of course, bookstores all around the world are hardly in a Golden Age era, but yeah, this one doesn't seem particularly notable, SYSTEMICBIAS aside. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:15, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - not enough in-depth coverage to meet WP:GNG or WP:CORPDEPTH. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 03:11, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Not every business in the world needs an article, and there's no evidence of notability considering most of the references that exist are merely routine reporting. The "successful models of bookselling" thing isn't reliable, as according to the same article the bookshop is owned by the state-owned media monopoly, so of course the Young Journalists Club (which is also owned by the same state-owned media monopoly) would want to promote it and keep it profitable. Uses x (talk • contribs) 22:56, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.