For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
February 13, 2002
Press Briefing by Ari Fleischer
Listen to the Briefing
- President's schedule
- Campaign finance reform/legislative change
- Meetings with congressional leadership
- Meeting with Secretary General Kofi Annan
- Pakistan/meeting with President Musharraf
- Daniel Pearl
- Osama bin Laden
- Education reform in Pakistan
- Kyoto Treaty/President's view
- Predator strike in Afghanistan
- Cross-border terrorism
The James S. Brady Briefing Room
2:30 P.M. EST
MR. FLEISCHER: Good afternoon. I'd like to
give you word on the President's schedule. Then I have an
important announcement I'd like to make on campaign finance reform.
The President this morning began his day with his usual briefings
from the CIA and the FBI. He then convened a meeting of the
National Security Council. The President met with President
Musharraf of Pakistan for approximately 45 minutes to an hour in the
Oval Office, and then had a one-hour lunch with President Musharraf
back in the residence.
During their time together, they discussed the war on terrorism,
bilateral relations with India and Pakistan, and economic assistance
for Pakistan. The President views President Musharraf as a
stalwart ally in the war on terrorism and is very grateful to President
Musharraf for the strong actions that Pakistan has taken.
Later today the President will meet United Nations Secretary
General Kofi Annan. And then the President will depart for
the State Department where he will make remarks to Cabinet and
sub-Cabinet government employees about the importance of government
service. And the President will say that it's important to
leave Washington better than we found it. It's a real
message -- a team-building message from, in effect, the manager of the
federal government to many senior-level government employees.
Q Open?
MR. FLEISCHER: No, it is not. I was not able
to change that.
Approximately one hour ago, the President was just informed about a
very troubling development on campaign finance reform, as a
result of a provision that is a multimillion-dollar soft money loophole
that was inserted in the Shays-Meehan substitute campaign finance
reform legislation in the middle of the night last night.
This change, which was not in previous versions of the bill, is
engineered to allow soft money to pay off existing hard-money debt for
the Republican National Committee and the Democratic National
Committee. The President views this as an unfair, unwise and
unwarranted change that makes something that is currently illegal and
tries to turn it into something that is legal. And the
President believes that this should be removed from the version of the
bill that is being considered on the floor.
With that, I'm happy to take your questions.
Q Will he veto?
MR. FLEISCHER: The President, again, wants to sign
something that improves the system. That provision, that
multimillion-dollar loophole is not in the Ney-Wynn bill; it is in the
Shays-Meehan bill.
Q What's the answer to the question?
MR. FLEISCHER: The President wants to sign something
that will improve the system. The President hopes that the
House will take the appropriate action.
Q This is the only time that you have spoken
out one way or the other for the -- or against campaign finance reform
on behalf of the President. Do you continue to assure us
today that the President is doing nothing behind the scenes to help the
Republican Party in its interests defeat campaign finance --
MR. FLEISCHER: Actually, Bill, I've been talking on a
regular basis about campaign finance reform and what the President
thinks. And the President wants to sign a bill that improves
the system. The reason nobody could talk about this before
was it didn't exist until midnight last night.
Q But is he doing anything behind the
scenes, as has been suggested, to help defeat it for the Republican
Party?
MR. FLEISCHER: The President would like to see something
pass. But, no, the President has not made any phone calls or
done anything of that nature.
Q Was the President aware, when he announced
support earlier today for having -- that it ought to take effect
immediately, was he aware of that amendment as seen by supporters as a
way to kill the bill?
MR. FLEISCHER: No, the President -- this change was made
in the middle of the night; it's on page 79 of the Shays
substitute. And the President was not aware of that until
after his meeting with President Musharraf.
Q No, I'm asking --
MR. FLEISCHER: No, the President's statement about an
immediate effective date still applies.
Q Did he know when he said that, did you
guys understand that the supporters of the bill see that amendment as a
way to kill the bill? In effect, he's speaking out to kill
the bill.
MR. FLEISCHER: Why would that kill a bill? If
it's a good reform, then shouldn't it go into law? And, of
course, Shays-Meehan always had an immediate effective date, they only
changed it recently. So that was part of the Shays-Meehan
bill previously. I think that doesn't make sense, that that
would kill the bill. I don't know how it would do that.
Q Is this multimillion-dollar loophole the
only deal-breaker in the Shays-Meehan substitute?
MR. FLEISCHER: Well, again, I described it on behalf of
the President as unfair, unwarranted and unwise. The
President still wants to sign something that improves the
system. The House has its opportunity to work its will and
to remove this provision.
Q Is this the only deal-breaker, though --
MR. FLEISCHER: I haven't used that word,
Ann. I've described it as I've described it.
Q Are the other 78 pages okay?
MR. FLEISCHER: Shays-Meehan makes several improvements
to the current system. There are some things in there that
the President does not see as improving the system. The same
could be said about the other legislation that's pending, as well, in
Ney-Wynn.
Q So he supported -- today the President
supported an amendment that supporters of campaign finance reform say
will kill the bill, and you've come out against an amendment that has
been attached to the bill. Is there any reason we should really think
that you're for this bill?
MR. FLEISCHER: Well, I'm not really sure why a supporter
of reform would say this is a good bill, these changes need to be made,
but we don't want to make them right now. I mean, I don't
see why that would kill a bill.
Q You know why.
Q Come on, you were on the Hill long
enough.
Q You know, Ari, they're concerned that it
will play a role in the 2002 election, so that you might get more
support if it takes effect after 2002, because some Republicans are
concerned that it would alter the balance in the House of
Representatives leading up to November elections.
MR. FLEISCHER: I think, frankly, if it's a good reform,
the reform should go into effect. That's what the President
believes. I think that to make that argument means perhaps
that the reformers aren't as dedicated to reform as they would
indicate.
Q So how can we take the President's
comments today about how he would like to see something that takes
effect immediately? If a bill comes to his desk and takes
effect after the November elections, would he sign it?
MR. FLEISCHER: Well, as I indicated this morning, if you
recall, that if it has a later effective date the President has said
that it's not the end of the world. But the President does
believe that it should take place immediately. And I think
he has a lot of support for that on Capitol Hill. But in terms
of -- well, go ahead.
Q So it's not the end of the world, meaning
he would sign it?
MR. FLEISCHER: The President has indicated he will sign
something that improves the system.
Q Could you describe what exactly is wrong
with the soft-money loophole?
MR. FLEISCHER: Well, first of all, it is currently
illegal to use soft money to pay off hard money debts. So it
just seems like an odd so-called reform to take something that's
currently illegal and legalize a million-dollar, multimillion-dollar
infusion of soft money into the system. If campaign reform is designed
to get soft money out of the system, then why are they changing
something that is currently illegal about using the soft money and
inviting more millions of dollars of soft money to pay off debts?
The other interesting issue about it, Steve, is if you take a look
at the debts of the Republican National Committee and the Democratic
National Committee, the Republican National Committee does not have any
hard-money debt; the Democratic National Committee has approximately
$10.8 million in debt, much of it hard, much of it soft.
Q Might that be why you're opposed to the
loophole?
MR. FLEISCHER: Well, I think that's also one of the
issues why this midnight change was put in there. No change
should be designed to help one party or another party, it should be a
fair reform to all.
Q Ari, you said this morning that the
regular meeting with the Congress leadership is going to be now every
two weeks, instead of every week. Any particular reason for
that?
MR. FLEISCHER: The President said that, himself, a
couple of weeks ago at a press event. I think it's just
scheduling logistics. They continue to like each other a
lot, but biweekly meetings worked, as well -- or semi-weekly --
Q The meeting today with the Secretary
General was not on the schedule. Is this something that came
up --
MR. FLEISCHER: I think that was called out last
night. The Secretary General was in town; he sought a
meeting with the President and the President was able to accommodate.
Q And how much time has been allowed --
MR. FLEISCHER: For that meeting?
Q What time did it start?
MR. FLEISCHER: It starts now. I guess I won't
be going to it. And I think it's a 20-minute
meeting. A 20-minute meeting.
Q What's on the table for that meeting?
MR. FLEISCHER: I think they'll talk about any number of
items around the world, and certainly including Afghanistan.
Q A couple questions about
Pakistan. Did the President make any assurances to President
Musharraf about the $3 billion in debt forgiveness that Pakistan
wants? In the issues of being able to sell textiles, was
there anything given by the U.S. on that? And the same with
their ability to buy military goods from the U.S.
MR. FLEISCHER: On the question of textiles, discussions
are ongoing. That's an important topic. There are many
people on the Hill who have strong opinions about that
issue. So those discussions are ongoing.
On the question of economic assistance, the President has committed
to $200 million worth of economic assistance to Pakistan, which will
result in a paying down of approximately $1 billion worth of Pakistani
debt. That's for the '03 budget.
Q Is that new money, or is that the old --
MR. FLEISCHER: That's for the '03 budget, new
money. In addition, they did talk about additional funding
this year, to help Pakistan with education assistance, law enforcement
assistance and economic development. No dollar amount.
Q How about military? Well, first
of all, let's go back to $200 million. That will -- how does
that help pay down $1 billion in debt?
MR. FLEISCHER: Ron, that is a great question, and I have
asked it to the people who do work in the realm of international
debt. And I have been advised that if you give $200 million
of assistance, it pays down $1 billion of debt. I can only
repeat it. I can't understand it. (Laughter.)
Mr. Sanger, perhaps you can explain it.
Q I'll read it in the paper
tomorrow. How about the military goods? Are they
going to be able the F-16s, any of the military goods they need?
MR. FLEISCHER: On military matters, they did discuss,
and we will have a program of military cooperation in exchange with the
Pakistani government. That has been suspended for an
approximately 10-year period. And the President views that as a very
constructive change in the relationship, showing the long-term
commitment of the United States and Pakistan.
Q But no immediate progress --
MR. FLEISCHER: Keep going.
Q Okay, is there any immediate progress --
oh, you're --
MR. FLEISCHER: I guess you're keeping
going. On other issues involving the
military. The President is meeting with Secretary Rumsfeld
this afternoon. You may want to get updates from the
Pentagon about any other discussions about anything involving weapons
or weapons systems. On the question of the F-16s, no change
in the status from what the President said in New York City on that
topic.
Q Ari, Musharraf said, regarding Daniel
Pearl, that he is reasonably sure that he is alive. Did he
offer the President any more reassurance or explain how or why --
MR. FLEISCHER: The President brought up the question of
Mr. Pearl in the Oval Office during their discussions. And I
won't speak for President Musharraf, but the President is pleased with
the actions the Pakistani government has been
taking. They've been very earnest in their efforts to help
us to have Mr. Pearl come back to the United States. But we
still do not know exactly where he is.
Q But did you get the impression, based on
what he said today, that there was anything new or any progress, I
guess, in the last 24 hours?
MR. FLEISCHER: Well, certainly, Pakistan has been very
aggressive in making arrests, which have been helpful in leading to
information. It just hasn't gotten all the way there yet,
unfortunately, in terms of allowing the release of Mr. Pearl.
Q Did they discuss in particular the arrest
yesterday of the man believed to be a chief suspect in this, Sheikh
Omar?
MR. FLEISCHER: I was at the lunch portion in the Oval
and I have not heard that level of detail about that.
Q Ari, do you believe this is payback for
Musharraf because he's taking a hard stand against Islamic militants?
MR. FLEISCHER: I can't begin to guess at the motivation
of kidnappers. What they've done is just
wrong. It's terrorist, it's kidnapping, and the United
States simply says, again, he's a journalist and he should be
released.
Q One more on Pakistan?
MR. FLEISCHER: We're coming to the back. I'm
working my way forward -- backward.
Q Ari, were there discussions of Osama bin
Laden, where he may be? And President Musharraf made a point of saying
that tensions with India seem to be declining a bit, so will that allow
-- did Musharraf give any indication that he would use his forces to
actively search within his own country for bin Laden?
MR. FLEISCHER: They did discuss Osama bin Laden, and
obviously, neither one of us -- neither the President, nor President
Musharraf knows exactly where he is. But we are working very
cooperatively with Pakistan in trying to find --
Q Is there a commitment to increase the
effort on the part of the Pakistanis?
MR. FLEISCHER: I think it's fair to say there's a lot of
effort already in that area.
Q Two questions on Musharraf's
meeting. The President has said on many occasions that he
was quite concerned about missile proliferation, particularly from
North Korea, one of the axis powers. And, of course,
Pakistan has historically been one of the largest importers of missiles
from North Korea. Was there any discussion of this, and were
there any commitments from President Musharraf to cease importing
missile technology from North Korea?
MR. FLEISCHER: There was no discussion that I heard.
Q Is any of the aid money contingent on
Pakistan ceasing its missile purchases from North Korea?
MR. FLEISCHER: Not that I've heard. That did
not come up in the meeting that I was attending.
Q And on Osama bin Laden -- this was raised
before -- President Musharraf, you may recall, suggested
about two or three weeks ago that he thought bin Laden was
dead. Did he repeat that today and is that still his belief
--
MR. FLEISCHER: Again, nobody knows for
sure. He doesn't know for sure if he's alive or
not. And most of that conversation took place in the Oval
Office, and so I want to hesitate to characterize it in
full. They did talk about how no one knows exactly where he
is. So I think the implication is that he is likely alive.
Q Musharraf spoke about education reform as
a means of curbing extremism. And I'm just wondering what
specific steps is the U.S. taking to address some of these underlying
cultural tensions that help breed terrorism.
MR. FLEISCHER: Well, it was a very interesting
discussion on education, because the President thinks -- and this is
very long-term thinking in terms of how to work around the world,
particularly in countries that have been known to foster terrorism,
where terrorists seem to come from -- the importance of
education. As the President says, it's through education
that young people have hope. And the President has always
been very clear in all the statements he's made -- whether it was about
North Korea, Iran, Iraq, or anywhere -- the Palestinian Authority --
that it's the people that the United States is concerned with, that
they are victims of regimes that invite terrorism and that practice
terrorism.
But the overwhelming number of people in these areas, these
countries, just want hope, they want opportunity, they want economic
development. And that's why the President enjoys talking so
much with President Musharraf about education reform, because they are
moving forward in Pakistan with education reform, as President
Musharraf discussed.
Q There was this big push in the early
stages of the war to kind of communicate the U.S. side, and to cultural
outreach. What is the status of that? What are we
doing?
MR. FLEISCHER: On cultural outreach?
Q You know, with your communication offices
kind of sending out the U.S. message -- I'm just wondering, has that
branched into something else?
MR. FLEISCHER: No, that continues. The
efforts of the Coalition Information Center continue.
Q Ari, President Bush said something today
about the education reform in Pakistan, that this year he would be
putting up $34 million. Is that on top of -- is it $100
million this year, as well, and $34 million?
MR. FLEISCHER: The $200 million, it would go for the
debt reduction. It would have a wide-spread impact because it frees up
other money that Pakistan would otherwise have used that would have
prohibited them from spending more on education.
Q But specifically, the money is targeted
for education reform with a religious component to change, to get into
sciences and things of that nature -- mathematics and Pakistan --
MR. FLEISCHER: That's Pakistan's determination, how to
spend their dollars. And the President is pleased with the
efforts they're making, but it's not for the United States to dictate
on a micro level how Pakistan should spend its money.
Q Ari, just to clarify, you said additional
money is coming in terms of economic aid, education assistance, et
cetera. Do you have any ballpark about what you're talking
about for this year -- on that additional aid that's forthcoming?
MR. FLEISCHER: No, they did not discuss a specific
dollar amount.
Q Is there a specific amount that you all
are looking at to help?
MR. FLEISCHER: We'll keep you advised if a specific
dollar amount is attached to that. President Musharraf is
going to have additional meetings with Secretary Powell, he met with
Secretary O'Neill this morning; as I mentioned, his meeting with
Secretary Rumsfeld shortly. So we'll keep you advised about
that.
Q Ari, on the educational stuff, what he
seemed to be saying, General Musharraf, was that he was going to change
the madrasas from being a center for religious and often extremist
teachings to one where they teach a basic curriculum of science and
math and that sort of thing. To what extent is the U.S.
involved in helping with that, in helping with the training of teachers
and materials, and all of the things that will be necessary to reorient
that?
And secondly, there has been some talk of trying to prevent a new
generation of terrorists from coming out of any number of places,
including these kind of schools. To what extent is that kind
of thinking part of this effort?
MR. FLEISCHER: Well, again, as the President said at the
news conference, that he believes through education young people will
have help, will have opportunity. And so it is an important
part of the thinking about how to deal with regions of the world in
which people have engaged in terrorist acts against our
country. It's an important long-term, forward-looking
approach that, I think it's accurate to say, won't have an immediate
dividend, but will have a long-term dividend. And that's
why, again, the President discusses it with different
leaders. It's not just President Musharraf with whom he has
spoken about that important value.
Now, in terms of the role the United States is going to play, the
United States is open to different ideas with Pakistan in terms of how
to develop closer ties on something of this
nature. Education is an internal Pakistani issue, so that
would have to be something that the Pakistanis would welcome, but the
United States is open on that matter.
Q So there's no specific role now
determined? That is yet to be determined?
MR. FLEISCHER: That's correct. You may want
to talk to the Department of Education and just see if they currently
have any international programs with Pakistan that I'm not aware
of. But that's the broader tenor of it.
Q Global warming, which you've said is going
to be coming up tomorrow -- could you remind us of why it was necessary
for us to come up with a substitute? What was so wrong with the
Kyoto pact? And why was the, I guess, the voluntary and
market-based approach that the President is going to be talking about
tomorrow, why is that so much better than a positive commitment like
Kyoto envisioned?
MR. FLEISCHER: Let me -- two points here, and let me
take your second one first. On the question of your premise
about what the President will announce tomorrow, I'd urge you to be
cautious in assuming that you know what the President is going to
announce tomorrow.
On the first part of it, the President views the Kyoto Treaty as
flawed for two principal reasons. One, it exempts many
developing nations around the world from participating in something
that has to be a global effort to reduce greenhouse gas
emissions. And he does not think it's fair to reduce such
giant nations -- to ignore such giant nations as India or China as part
of a global effort to reduce greenhouse gases.
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Also, the President is very concerned about the effect Kyoto would
have on America's workers, on American jobs and on the American
economy; that it is not the right remedy to have a massive reduction
below 1990 levels. If that were to go into effect, it would
have a screeching halt effect on the economy and people would lose
their jobs as a result. The President believes that we can
have economic growth and environmental enhancement, and that's what
he'll be discussing tomorrow.
Q Has the President been briefed on the
February 4th Predator strike in Afghanistan? And is he
confident that a military target was hit?
MR. FLEISCHER: The President, of course, has been
briefed as part of his regular morning meetings. And I think
you have heard from the Defense Department directly about that topic,
and the President is satisfied fully with what Defense has informed
him.
Q More specifically, there was a report this
morning that a senior al Qaeda finance official may have been hit, as
opposed to innocent civilians. Can you shed any light at all
on that?
MR. FLEISCHER: I cannot confirm that information.
Q On Pakistan, please. Did the
two Presidents discuss, number one, the question of cross-border
terrorism, which has been holding up their dialogue? And
secondly, India was given a list of 20 people, the criminals they want
repatriated. Fourteen of them are Indian citizens in
Pakistan. And did they discuss this aspect -- when the President said
that he will promote a dialogue -- did they discuss these two issues,
namely cross-border terrorism and meeting the Indian list?
MR. FLEISCHER: I think you heard President Musharraf,
himself, address the issue in the news conference about cross-border
terrorism, when he made a determination -- a commitment to fight
terrorism of all forms, everywhere. So I think President
Musharraf directly addressed that question.
Q Is Kofi Annan coming to the stakeout?
MR. FLEISCHER: You'd have to ask him, I could not tell
you. I don't know.
Thank you.
END 2:51
P.M. EST
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