Obama: will not refight battle over healthcare law

If Obamacare is not repealed, he will go down in history as one of the great Presidents. You can bet on it. Thank you for passing it, Mr. President.

How can the party of Lincoln defend dismantling Health Care Reform when so many Americans have just received coverage under the bill – and many of those are now unemployed? Truly, the party of the people is now the Democrats. Obama 2012

The healthcare reform, if repealed will be a big mistake. I am a physician and cannot stress enough, how badly we need a reform. There is overuse of imaging and clinicians are most concerned about defending them all the time against a suit, they would not lay hands on a patient unless the diagnosis is documented by an imaging study. Tha’s not how good medicine is practiced in the best nation on the planet.

The increase in the deficit is do to the renewal of the Bush era tax cuts for the wealthy, not health care (the $1.07T accounted for the new health care law). The republicans got what the want – so there!

Mr. Obama is clearly not familiar with the latest CBO report on the real financial state of Medicare and health care in the United States. We will receive less care, we will pay much more for what care we receive, and eventually have our care severely rationed as shortages of doctors, hospitals and medical equipment become the norm, as they have in every country that has adopted state run health care. Obamacare is a fiscal catastrophe.

“I mean this thing has been in place now for 10 months, all right?” Thanks for showing just how little you care for legitimate debate, Mr. Obama. How about a retort of, “I mean, most of this things most grievous mandates haven’t gone into full effect yet, all right?” Seriously – Obama doesn’t debate, he just tells you you’re wrong until you give up.

Thank God. I’m tired of all the bickering. Just repeal it already.

Several things he said are only half-true if not totally false. l.)You can only keep your individual or group health insurance if it meets the “requirements” that HHS hasn’t yet published. It is likely most policies won’t qualify and if you have to apply for new coverage you will pay a higher premium due to the “coverage provisions that HHS will mandate”.
2.)subsidy for premiums for those deemed “unable to afford” coverage has already been under estimated according to the actuaries. This means the taxpayers will be on the hook for making up the difference.
3.) even if your premiums go down, CBO and other studies indicate it won’t be more than 3% and like will increase; plus the various “hidden taxes” will negate any savings you or your employer may see from lower premiums.
4. The things the President sited as already helping people, are all part of the “patient protection act” that is part of the Law. The Republicans agreed with these and it should have been passed as a seperate bill; cause the rest of the law is useless when it comes to reducing health care costs. Ask me if you want to know why.

Had something similar to the Healthcare Reform Law been in effect six or seven years ago, my mother may still be alive. She worked hard all her life, sometimes up to three jobs at once, raising three children on her own (my father couldn’t have cared less, but that’s a different story). She always put her needs last to the point that she had a lump in her breast for two years and told no one because she had no health coverage. By the time she decided to seek help, it was simply too late. Yes, there was help available, but had she had coverage of the sort this law grants, she would not have been so hesitant about seeking treatment. Now she is no longer with us and my hope is that Health Care Reform will keep others from a similar fate. Oh, and for those who use the term “Obamacare” deregatoriliy, I say “Obama Cares”!

Democrats are hiding the true cost of Obamacare.

We all know the CBO scoring of Obamacare used unrealistic numbers, so implicit in Obamacare is the expectation that the Chinese will continue loaning us TRILLIONS to subsidize our health care system … while at the same time several billion Chinese have no health care at all. It’s not going to happen.

Yesterday the credit rating agencies cut Japan’s credit three points to AA-, something unprecedented for a powerhouse economy like theirs. The IMF has added it voice to credit rating agencies in warning that the United States is headed there too. Americans are too dumb to understand what that means and therefore clamor for more deficit-funded socialism.

Obamacare won’t be repealed by Congress. It will be repealed by our foreign creditors who finally pull the plug on our line of credit.

There was no battle. He and his co-horts pushed it thru, with the help of unions and lobbyists, using questionable tactics, against the will of the people and called it legislation. What does he say now that his medicare advocate, who appeared before congress the other day, admitted that this bill will not lower costs and the obama promise of “if you like your healthcare plan, you’ll be able to KEEP your healthcare plan …is a false promise. What does he say when there are currently 730 organizations….mostly his unions that have waivers from the healthcare bill?

According to the Rasmussen Poll 53 percent of likely voters want Obamacare repealed. The Republicans have approved the repeal of Obamacare in the house and have vowed to defund Obamacare. Federal Judge Henry Hudson of Virginia has declared the individual mandate unconstitutional. The state of Oklahoma is in the process of filing a Obamacare lawsuit. Once Oklahoma files, that will make 28 states that have a lawsuit in court to declare Obamacare unconstitutional. Six states are working on bills to nullify Obamacare. The effort to kill Obamacare grows each month.

Thank You President Obama! I don’t know who the so called “American people” are the the Rs keep mouthing off about–but I sure disagree with them if they’re resisting this law. I’m pretty sure I’m an American person. I just can’t figure out how the Rs can get it so, so very wrong.

If health-care reform is such a done deal and President Obama is holding all the cards, why does he keep talking about it so much? Sterling Greenwood/AspenFreePress

Nobody is asking to “re-fight the battle” to pass the law, Mr. President. All we want is the truth, and no more false claims of huge deficit reductions and better insurance for less cost. The minute you come clean, the process to correct this travesty can begin. Or, you can stick to your lies, and your phony CBO numbers, and the fight to repeal Obamacare will continue well after you are defeated in 2012. The ball’s in your court, Mr. President.

A few good things were accidentally included in this bankrupting plan–re-existing conditions, and insurance for children until 26. To go down in history as a “great president”, Obama would only have had to admit that the timing was impossibly bad for this, and put it on a shelf until such time as the Bush disaster could be mitigated — say, 15 years or so.

A majority of Americans want to reopen the health care conversation. We have a president not king. Barack OLbama does not get to decide when the discussion ends.

If anyone wants to see U.S. government run health care in action, go visit a city/state run hospital. Go around and ask people how long they’ve been waiting in the emergency room. 3 hours, 6 hours, 12 hours, 20 hours. See all of those illegal immigrants ahead of you? People die waiting for care. Have a seat if you can find one and see how much time passes before some nut job out of medication or drunk sits down next to you and wants to be your friend or steal your wallet/purse.

Need to see a doctor? Fine, he/she has an opening for you in 3 weeks. Wasn’t it great having your own personal doctor that knew you by name? Not anymore because they are overloaded and backlogged.

Need an ambulance? One will come help you as soon as one is available but it may be a few hours. You’re better off driving yourself to the hospital, that is if you don’t die first.

That is what you have to look forward to. What good is government run health care if you can’t get treated?

Doesn’t Obamacare sound great?

Republicans work the their corporate masters and are therefore opposed to regulating banks/the environment/wages/or any other thing that will reign in the corporate oligarchy. We are rapidly moving into third world country status with no middle class & a ruling class! It will be time then for the American Revolution part II!

@jollypants: there are not several billion people in China, let alone on the planet Earth. Though I agree – as a fiscal nation, we’re on the way down.

All: It’s okay when Republicans borrow money to fund badly-planned foreign wars… but when Democrats try to borrow money to build a healthier America, it’s THE WORST THING TO EVER HAPPEN. Hilarious.

Many make the same ignorant assumption, equating an insurance policy to a miracle cure. Even with insurance, a lengthy stay in a hospital can result in hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills – after the insurance pays. Before touting the success of Obama’s Ponzi scheme, remember that having insurance does not mean free medical care, no matter how convincing the promises sound.

You so-called “conservatives” keep your facts to yourselves. The rest of us can feel the glorious truth of this benevolent and merciful plan. We know what we want, and we will demand it. And we demand something, we surely get it, good and hard.

@sethasa When was the last time you had an absolutely awesome time at a government run facility? Did you have a great experience at the post office? How about the Department of Motor Vehicles? I bet when you walked into the front door and they treated you like a guest in their establishment. Does the IRS send you a birthday card every year?

Government can solve all our healthcare problems!! They’ve done such a good job with the rest of the economy for years! Ask what your country can do for you! We’ll change when we’re broke-not till then!

What would be the point of this ‘re-fight’? If the GOP wants to channel its inner Simon LeGree, and prove to the country they’re a bunch of whiny rich boys who care little to nothing about their fellow man (being the good ‘christians’ they are), they’ve achieved that goal in spades!

But, if they do wanna actually work with Democrats, independents, moderates, whoever–anybody who wants to get things done, then maybe I might be willing to listen to what they have to say, minus my usual skepticism.

How many of us could afford the type/amount of health care being provided the congresswoman from Arizona?

Obama, like all simpleton liberals before him, have no respect for economics. Case in point – Obamacare. By every measure it is a job killer and economic disaster in the making. Sure, it hands more freebies out to his parasitic followers, but it also will destroy the coverage currently enjoyed by millions. It creates a cartoon-like bureaucracy of paper pushers, and it requires 16,500 new IRS agents to force Americans into paying for something they don’t want. Does Obama even understand the term Liberty?

Second point regarding economics – you liberals can’t seem to understand why businesses are sitting on tons of cash but won’t spend it. Hint for you – it’s called Obama. Businesses won’t hire or spend when they sense the business environment is toxic and unpredictable. This is why Marxists like Obama must nationalize industries – because the government can’t force hiring or investment.

My point is Obama couldn’t run a lemonade stand, so he could care less about the economic impact of Obamacare. He’s a community agitator who has sealed the paper trail of his entire life. For Obama, it’s all about the government control obtained by hooking another 32 million people up to the government entitlement trough. As far as the collateral damage, Alinski and Obama would say the ends justify the means.

2012 will resolve this issue. Obama and the leftists in Congress are ensuring their own defeat by thumbing their nose at the people that pay the bills in this country.

As I read people’s comments, not just for this article but for most that have to do with any political topic, I notice that people on both sides of the aisle tend toward misleading “facts” and name calling. Here are a couple of items to help people become more fully informed.

-The CBO has stated that “ObamaCare” will reduce the deficit (the Government will in fact save money according to the CBO)

-The CBO also has published figures for INCREASES in health insurance premiums on the order of 27-30% for individual policies (although the health care bill will save the government $ it costs the people more and the CBO has not shown how these figures off set)

-No pre-existing conditions clause means that people can get insurance any time therefore healthy people will not need to carry insurance – now before you say that there will be penalties for not having insurance let me remind you that according to the law it is up to the IRS to enforce this. That’s gonna work real well isn’t it? What does this mean? It means that if healthy people are not paying insurance companies to help offset premiums then unhealthy people will have to pay more.

-If the government is going to offset costs for the poor where will that money come from?

Sounds like the only savings are for the Federal Government and the perpetually healthy everyone else – those that actually need health insurance – will be paying much more.

So who is wrong the Democrats or the Republicans? Seems to me that both are telling half truths to support their position.

All of you who think we should not extend healthcare coverage to 30+ million people who don’t have it, in the greatest nation on earth, ought to feel ashamed. Your thoughts and ideology are getting in the way of this exceptional nation we think we live in. You should all be ashamed to call yourselves Americans.

He won’t have to – it is going to get ignored in the Senate and it will be long gone by the time sanity returns to Congress.

Graceful – you are no physician. A physician would know that Obamacare does nothing to discourage the overuse of imaging or frivolous lawsuits. That is something called tort reform that the Republicans had in their bills, which were shot down by the Democrats.

@Adam_S Because it’s socialism. Taking money from the rich to give to the poor. Don’t think for a second that all those 30 million people are contributing to society to make this country even better. A lot of those people drink and drug themselves to death or near to it, sit in front of the TV all day snacking on junk food.

Please explain to me why I work hard 9-10 hours a day, 6 days a week just to get health insurance, why my tax money should go to someone that does nothing at all?

America became great because the citizens worked hard for what they had. Now everyone wants something for free and until America gets out of the mindset that we deserve something for nothing, we will never be great again.

Really not sure what he means when he says he won’t refight the battle. What battle exactly did he fight to get healthcare passed? He didn’t fight the Republicans, he passed it without them. He didn’t fight the American people, he ignored them. So when he says he doesn’t want to refight it he means, I might actually lose so lets not fight.

Also, isn’t fighting an inflamatory suggestion? Aren’t we moving away from an era of incivility? Just saying.

Really not sure what he means when he says he won’t refight the battle. What battle exactly did he fight to get healthcare passed? He didn’t fight the Republicans, he passed it without them. He didn’t fight the American people, he ignored them. So when he says he doesn’t want to refight it he means, I might actually lose so lets not fight.

Also, isn’t fighting an inflamatory suggestion? Aren’t we moving away from an era of incivility? Just saying.

Sethasa, there are 7.5 billion people on earth. Look it up anywhere.
Other than that, has anyone noticed the health care premium increases over 50%? Do you really think your employers are going to continue to be gouged by insurance companies?

Insurance companies cannot issue waivers to people who are already sick but they can, and do simply refuse to write policies for baby boomers with high blood pressure or asthma, for instance. It is impossible to find individual coverage now even at premiums which are 33% higher in some cases, than last year. All because of Obamacare. Thanks alot – you got it wrong, Dems, now repeal it. You have made our lives worse with your meddling. Baucus didn’t even read the bill and probably nobody else did, either. If I want to leave my state association and move elsewhere, I need to go without insurance for 6 months and then go into a high risk pool, if the state has one. Because insurance companies are also not writing association group policies for indivduals anymore. This is a horrible law and we know who to blame. Tea anyone?

Surveys say that 60% of Americans want healthcare reform left intact, as is. Whatever the Republicans are doing, it is not the will of the People. They’re just being the Partisan Menace they always are.

He just doesn’t get it. He appears to believe if he keeps saying the same lie and smiles while doing it, it will be true and we will believe it. How do you reach a person like that? You don’t.

@Adam_S

I am against opening up health insurance for those who waited to get sicke to actually apply for it. Lets see how auto insurance would work like that. You pay nothing into auto insurance, total your car, get insurance and have them give you thousands of dollars on your claim. How long do you think the auto insurance company stays in business? Insurance companies don’t do this to be cruel, they do it because it is the only way Insurance actually works. You don’t get insurance because you are sick, you get insurance because you may get sick.

At the people who support taking money from those who are good with their money, to give it to those who are not, you should be ashamed of yourself because you are destroying America and our youth. Entitlements are ruining our once great nation.

@McBob08

Surveys say that 60% of all surveys misrepresent facts and have misleading questions to promote the answers that the surveyor wants. They also show that 99% of references to surveys without any references or details of the exact questions asked are misleading and false.

Don’t improve it, totally destroy it – Republican ideals at work again.

I really like the whole pre-existing condition thing and confusion on insurance. To put it in simple terms and using life insurance as an example;
Me: I bet I’m gonna die in the next 30 years
Insurance: No way, wanna put money on it?
Me: Sure
Insurance: Pay me 15 bucks a month, if you die then I’ll pay your next of kin more than what you paid in
Me: It’s a bet!

Wonderful. The Party of the Rich and Hateful wants to repeal The Affordable Healthcare Act, and now I also read that they are floating the idea of repeal of Medicare.

Ah, how they are rushing us toward 3rd world economy with absolutely no healthcare for anyone by the rich and hateful.

And to think they scared a large number of my generation into voting them into office with lies about Health Care Reform, and now they are in the process of unleashing more hardship on the poor, the working class, and yes the retired people who were foolish enough to vote for them.

Yes and No together. Every years medical benefits are rising for everybody. If I’m having $500,000 per year and I need to pay for insurance $3,000 per year today and $4,000 in next Year – is the same. If I’m having $35,000 per Year for my family and after taxes and any payments I can’t to afford medicine insurance I’m having a choice: less dress, less food, etc. In the same time most of the Doctors, insurances, pharmaceptical companies are having 25% more in next Year from everybody. Make sure that the teachers, engineers are making max $150K and doctors in USA at least a wfew times more and they’re can’t to stop encreasing any payments. More and more doctors are hated Medicare and Medicate and most of the “cheap” insurance. Money, more money asking medicine in USA. And more american’s population cannot afford such premiums for everything. SO, the Medicine in USA will be for reach people only? It looks like, YES! More than 20 millions americans are don’t having job and can’t to pay for medicine. Most of such people having a families, so it looks as 35-4- millions joblesses without medicine coverage. Plus poor american – at least more 30 millions! 35-40 % of USA’s population!!! What need to do: to open a social hospitals with affordable prices? Shame americans doctors where they’re awre looking in your wallet and after then looking how they’re can to help you? Most of the Pharmacephts companies making a billions on our healthy! Medicine in USA is business only! Say doctor: I’m seek, I need help but I don’t having money and you’re will have a kick in your… – go and die!
Another hand: – do we are need to medical reforms if we’re can’t afford it? Looks like – not! American’s are need JOB, JOB, JOB! Job will give the money and abilities to buj an insurance! And Government need to keepeng control for voracious appetite of americans doctors and insurances with the taxes.

Singapore gets a better medical outcome and only pays 4 percent of it’s GDP on health care. The US gets a worse outcome and pays 17 percent.

Single Payer is coming. Single Payer is necessary. But Republicans with their slavish devotion to a handful of billionaires in the insurance are more important to the GOP than the American people or the economy.

And it doesn’t help that a bunch of morally crippled old white people who can’t stand the thought of a black guy in the Oval Office are basically the enemy of everyone.

Have you noticed how those bad-mouthing Republicans have nothing intelligent to add to the coversation? They don’t dispute the information centerists like myself post, they have no rebuttal.
No, all they do is demonize Republicans or those with concerns about the Law.
If you read the posts that clearly aren’t written by radical liberals, you can quickly see a huge difference in the “tone” of the post.
Most of not once mentioned that those that disagree with our view are somehow inferior or foolish.

It is so clear who the Obama “sheeple” are. Those that don’t take the time to research the Bill or check whether or not what is being said is truthful or not.

I was forced to break my rule of not disrespecting others posts. I just find the comments against Republicans to be unfounded and in bad taste.

Anyway, right back at you, Andrehorning and others.

whaddya mean ‘re-fight’. not fighting for people will be the legacy of barry the betrayor. That and president Palin. had he ever fought for the people who elected him, we would have single payor, a few dozen wall streeters in jail, and a WH press room sans a chair for Fox and anybody who thought joining Fox outdoors was more important than having a seat in the WH press room.
re-fight my patoot. Citizens across the ME are teaching Reuters, et. al., what it means to fight for right. May they be blessed with strength, courage and support. may reuters, fox,et al, stop manufacturing pap for profit. real people desperately need you to be responsible.

The Obamacrats successfully prevented Republicans from participating in the health care legislative process last time. Now we will have an honest discussion about that 3000 page bill with hundreds of new agencies and hundreds of thousands of new regulations.

For two years the Obamacrats did what they wanted to do; now, Republicans will do what really needed to be done. Step one, is repeal the ObamaCare disaster.

any bill that has 800 or more pages has got to be considered a sham by the general public.

I don’t think that’s a decision Obama gets to make. In addition to the legal challenges, the next congress is very likely to be solidly Republican. Most of the Senate seats in play will be defended by Democrats, some of which are in red or purple states. If this happens, Republicans will even more vigorously attack the health care law. Not to mention, 729 waivers have already been granted, many to former supporters of the bill.

Anyone who thinks obama-no-care is a good idea is an idiot plain and simple. Obama has NEVER even read the thing…has no idea what is in it and frank;u could give a rats a$$…he is not smart enough to understand it. All he knows is that it increases government control over our lives and is bad for the US that is all he cares about…the effete bastard!

And GRACEFUL…you are not a doctor….from your posting I seriously doubt you even have a high school diploma!

Trooth: “I am against opening up health insurance for those who waited to get sicke to actually apply for it.”

The amazing thing about your post is that you don’t even realize how ridiculous you sound. So you think people are just waiting around to get sick? It’s statements like that that make me wonder how anyone can vote Republican.

Let me clue you in on something. Millions of Americans don’t buy health insurance because they can’t afford it, not because they’re waiting around to get sick. If you look at the costs of medical insurance and medical care and consider the average income you start to understand why so many people don’t have insurance. And if you figure the average income excluding the top 10% of income earners then that average drops significantly and healthcare starts to become impossible. The rest of the modern world realizes that this is an unacceptable national condition demonstrating a world where other governments from industrialized nations actually serve their people, national populations who are ethical enough to realize that it is simply unacceptable to have a healthcare system that is unaffordable to millions of their fellow citizens and causes nearly a million citizens to go bankrupt annually because they DO try to pay for their healthcare.

It’s just a shame and international embarrassment that, thanks to America’s rightwing extremist movement, the United States, the richest country in the world, is the only modern industrialized nation in the world that does not give all of its citizens access to healthcare. And they expect God to bless America? Not hardly.

He didn’t fight a battle. He just shoved it down our throats. He gave America the finger and said, “Sit down, and shut up.” After we throw him out of office, figuratively speaking, of course, Americans can overhaul the health care system using market forces and common sense. There is no need to turn us into Venezuela, Obama.

@ginchinchili

The amazing thing about your post is that you don’t even realize how ridiculous you sound.

Let me clue you in on something. Millions of Americans don’t buy health insurance because they feel that they can afford to not have it. When they get sick and can’t afford the medical bills they realize they can’t afford to not have medical insurance. I had health insurance when I was making $7 an hour fresh out of high school. It wasn’t on my parents plan. It was through work. Then I saw coworkers not get health insurance in order to get an extra $3 an hour on their pay check. They said I am not going to be sick, I am not buying health insurance. I do not want my insurance going up 40% to pay for those who were less diligent and did not plan for the future. If that makes me a rightwing extremist than fine. You can go out find someone that does not have health insurance because they can not afford it if you wish, and pay for it for them, until you do that you are a hypocrite for wanting to force everyone else to do that.

Oh and here is something about Obamacare that puts a huge hole in your rant. Health insurance is not more affordable, the costs are going up. So the people who couldn’t afford it before still can’t afford it and now more people can’t afford. Good game obamacare.

Troot: “You can go out find someone that does not have health insurance because they can not afford it if you wish, and pay for it for them, until you do that you are a hypocrite for wanting to force everyone else to do that.”

You’re still unable to understand. That’s exactly what I, along with the rest of the civilized world, think we should do. To suggest that I should find somebody in the street and just pay their insurance for them is unrealistic and solves nothing. I want to be able to contribute through my tax dollars to help those less fortunate than me. What you’re suggesting just serves to sidestep your responsibility to defend your position, which is what you usually do.

So you were able to survive on $7.00 an hour in order to have insurance. Great. But any thinking person knows that you had to have had very low overhead to do that. Do I have to explain what I mean by overhead? For example, you weren’t raising a child on your own. You weren’t making mortgage payments. You weren’t sending anyone to college. Do you get where I’m going with this? Not everyone is Trooth. Not everyone is living their lives, or even in a position to live their lives, as you did when you were “fresh out of high school”. Nearly everyone lives cheaply when they’re fresh out of high school. Big deal. I sure did. It’s the same old pitifully weak rightwingers argument. I did it, so everyone should be able to, as if everyone’s life has just the same balance as yours did when you first got out of high school. What a myopic bunch of malarkey. This is going to come as a shock to you so I hope you’re sitting down, but there are people who have it harder than you, Trooth, no matter what kind of challenges you were facing when you left high school. Believe it or not, not everyone landed on the path that you landed on. Get your ego out of the way for just a minute and try to think objectively.

If America’s healthcare system is so much better than everyone elses, then why aren’t all the other democracies of the world clamoring for a healthcare system like ours? I think we both know the answer to that, but just in case I’ll give you a clue; ours is the most expensive per capita and covers the smallest percentage of people. And that’s not even going into the tragic lives of those who get sick and can’t afford healthcare or those who go bankrupt trying to afford healthcare.

That’s 1.48 trillion in YEARLY debt increase! During the Obama administration: 1.48 trillion in 2011 or 9.8% of GDP
1.36 trillion in 2010 or 8.9% of GDP
1.41 trillion or 10% of GDP in 2009

Total debt accumulated = $14.3 trillion
and will reach the ceiling on March 31, 2011
at which time congress needs to lift the ceiling higher
otherwise, the government will start defaulting on its bills.

ObamaCare increases deficit by 371 billion
and over ten years the addition is $701 billion.
According to a January 2011 article:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/cbo-obamacare-would-increase-national-debt-spend-medicare-savings_536716.html

And this doesn’t take into account the damage done to individual
state budgets. ObamaCare borrows money from the Stimulus to pay
for people’s health insurance. That borrowing will stop and then
these insurance premiums will be paid for by the states…somehow!

And they are talking a fed law to allow states to go into bankruptcy
if they need to.

Society cannot sustain the ever increasing prices of the hogging health care industry.

The prices with double and triple digit inflation need to be stopped.
The med industry needs to be shook up and treated like the terrorist
industry that they are. They are ruining this country. And they own
the democratic party who does their bidding.

One more thing…I noticed someone was happy with adult children going on their plans again because they were under 27.

Did you know that the Fair Market Value of the premium that is paid into the insurance by your employer is taxable as income TO YOU. It is not taxed as income by federal, but it will be taxed by some states. There are about twenty states who will tax this. It will show up on your W-2.

And the states won’t just tax the actual dollars sent into the insurance.
They will tax the FAIR MARKET VALUE of that policy. You could be taxed (say) on $6,000 even though the employer sent in $3,000.
THIS is what Obamacare has done.

You better check what state you are in so you can withhold that
2% social security reduction for to send into your state.

@ginchinchili
“You’re still unable to understand. That’s exactly what I, along with the rest of the civilized world, think we should do. To suggest that I should find somebody in the street and just pay their insurance for them is unrealistic and solves nothing. I want to be able to contribute through my tax dollars to help those less fortunate than me. What you’re suggesting just serves to sidestep your responsibility to defend your position, which is what you usually do.”

I make enough money for me, I don’t have much extra spending money, I am lower middle class. My insurance is going up as a direct result of this. I pay taxes, I don’t want to pay more taxes to make up for those who aren’t paying anything. I have no problem if you want to donate to charity, but stop forcing everyone else to give up more money for your cause. This is called liberty. I am a libertarian, you have no right to tax me for your various programs or goals. You have every right to take it on yourself to do so, but no, you want it done through the government or you wont do it. Tax returns show Republicans donate vastly more money to charities than Democrats. Why is that? Unless a Democrat is forced to give through taxes, they wont do it, but will champion higher taxes for all to go to their good causes.

My example included other people who was working at the same place I was working at. Various ages, many different situations. Many wives working just so they could get the insurance for their families. There was others in my situation who chose not to get insurance, that is the point. If they made the decision to not get insurance, then they made the decision to deal with the consequences of not having insurance. Insurance is there to cover you butt when you need it. The government is not there to be insurance for the people who failed to get insurance.

I think it is heartless to take from those who make wise decisions to give it to those who don’t. It goes against the evolutionary process. Survival of the fitness and what not. We are raising kids and teens with a full entitlement mindset. You don’t have to do anything until you are 26, you can go to college and party, we will fit the bill. When you get out of college you can mope around and live off your parents for another 4 years and we will foot the bill. If you can’t find a job after that, we will foot the bill. No motivation to ever enter the real world. And you wonder why America is heading down hill.

Beyond all of this, this is not economically feasable. One hundred percent of the money we tax will soon go entirely to entitlement programs. No more money for national defense, no money for roads, no money for communications, no money for the things that the US government has a constitutional responsibility to provide. Nope, just failed democrat programs that speed us quicker and quicker to national bankruptcy based on the same failed programs that Europe has. The only gleaming light in Europe is Sweeden and Norway who pay for their social programs with proceeds from guess what. Yes drilling oil. But the Democrats can’t allow that either.

And again I say if you have the money to pay someone else’s healthcare and wish to do so, great, I greatly respect that. But you are just out to take money from everyone to give to complete strangers who may have been irresponsible, here illegally, on alchohol or drugs all their life, or may actually have a hardship and are in a bad situation. Life experience for me shows that 2/3 of those who are in bad situations are there by direct results of their own actions, and I refuse to support any politician who supports taxing me to pay for them.

I have been unemployed for long periods of time before, I have been homeless, I have gone hungry. I did so by my own actions, and my friends and family helped me when then could and when I would change my ways. I also got myself a job, got myself an education, got myself a house, got myself a car. There are millions of Americans who are in their position because of substance abuse. A high ammount of the spending for various social programs go to these very people. You very well know this. You helping them is enabling them, I don’t want to participate. I again say for every one single mother struggling to survive and provide a house and healthcare for her children doing all she can, there are 3 people who are skating by draining the economy, and expecting someone else to take care of them. You go out and live on the streets awhile and you will learn where your tax dollars end up. I’ll trade you my food card for some alchohol and drugs…

I didn’t vote for redistribution of my earned income AND health care. I don’t believe that obama is an American, and I know that he is a mobster. I will not be partaking in this plan to steal more of my money and will join 63% of the rest of America to make sure it is repealed. Those who don’t contribute to the pie should never be permitted to vote in elections, eh?

Trooth: You have a very jaundiced view of life. I have no illusions about opening your eyes to reality. You obviously aren’t a religious man, or even what you might call enlightened or spiritual, and that’s certainly your prerogative. It’s what you would call practicing your liberty. Apparently the US has more people like that than most other countries.

As usual, you fail to address my question, if America’s healthcare system is the greatest, then why doesn’t anyone else in the world want it? Of course, I answered that for you in my last post. Most humans think it’s uncivil not to provide healthcare for all people, that is, most people except for America’s supporters of the radical rightwing movement where only a relative handful of people deserve most of the money and the things money can buy. Everyone else must just be lazy and no good.

With your philosophy you’d be most suited to live in a banana republic. Their disparity of wealth is much like our here in the US, which has the greatest disparity of wealth among all industrialized nations. I’m sure it’s no coincidence that the same sole industrialized country that doesn’t provide healthcare for all of its citizens also has the greatest disparity in wealth. No matter how you slice it, a nation that runs on a system of greed won’t last. And if you were a religious man, you certainly couldn’t expect God’s support.

It does bother me, however, that you argue your perspective based on (1) what happens to be best for Tooth, and (2) you make up your “facts” as you go while backing them up. For example, “Tax returns show Republicans donate vastly more money to charities than Democrats.” Forgive me, but I don’t believe we have to state our political preferences on our tax returns. I should hope not. If you’re really a libertarian than that loose “fact” that you threw out there should be a target for your libertarian ire. But we both know it’s not true. I think you pull out the libertarian card when it’s most convenient. It paints a prettier face on selfishness.

You also prevaricate by presenting a stick man argument. You disagree with me because you don’t want your tax dollars going to some bum in the street trying to scrape up enough money for a drink or some drugs. Here comes another shocker. Either do I. But to suggest that because I believe that all American’s should have access to affordable healthcare must mean I also want to pay for the vices of drug addicts and alcoholics is just plain silly. I know a lot of progressives but none that I know support that. Yes, I’m an advocate for joining the rest of the world in the 21st Century by giving all Americans access to affordable healthcare but I’m also an advocate for fighting government waste, and paying for the vices of addicts would certainly qualify as government waste. I’m all for taking steps to end that.

“Life experience for me shows that 2/3 of those who are in bad situations are there by direct results of their own actions” It’s a bad idea to form your opinions of the entire world based on your limited experience and FOX News. The truth is, you have no idea what percentage of Americans are their by their own actions so don’t pretend you do. Besides, what does that have to do with giving all Americans access to affordable healthcare?

You also blame the new healthcare law for the increase in your insurance rates. Trooth, Obama didn’t raise your insurance rates. Your insurance company did. It’s called free enterprise or capitalism. Here’s another shocker for you; your rates have been going up for a long time now, long before Obama came to the White House. And guess what? They will continue to go up. And if Obama and the Democrats tried to do anything to prevent that so that you wouldn’t have to pay those higher rates you’d be on here complaining about that, and that’s patently illogical.

Swedes and Norwegians do a good job running their countries as do the Canadians, and there are others. All of these countries provide healthcare for their citizens. If you’re going to make up facts to make your rightwing arguments, you probably should choose another country besides Sweden. For starters, Sweden isn’t an economic success because they drill oil. Where did you get that from? Oh yeah, you made it up. Oil exports is a very small part of their economy. Frankly, I couldn’t find where they have much of an oil industry at all. I don’t doubt that they do, but their 3 major resources are timber, hydro-power, and iron ore. They have a high standard of living and an average lifespan that is higher than here in the US. They have a well-educated population and–you’re not going to like this–they have a rather extensive welfare system. And they are considered happy people. Here’s a link to the results of a survey that was done recently. Sweden ranked #2 among the happiest nations. In fact, almost all the top countries are European countries. The US is ranked 13th. The 12 nations coming before the US all provide healthcare for their people. Norwegians are also big environmentalists, you know, the fallacy that all the world worries about except America’s rightwingers because they’re smarter than everyone else in the world. And it just so happens the the rightwing belief that there is no global warming just happens to be very convenient for a selfish point-of-view because trying to do something about global warming costs money and, as you stated, “I make enough money for me, I don’t have much extra spending money”. It’s me me me, the motto of America’s selfish rightwing extremists.

Norway does have a big oil industry, representing about 30% of their GDP. Other than that, Norway is much like Sweden. And, yes, the offer healthcare for all. Perhaps you should also understand that the US has a bid oil industry as well. Obama even opened up additional areas for offshore drilling.

The bottom line is, thanks to having too many people like you the US is too greedy and selfish to provide healthcare for all of its people. You’re unable to explain why we’re the only industrialize nation that doesn’t provide healthcare for its people, but obviously one reason is that rightwingers tend to be some of the most selfish people in the world, certainly among industrialized nations. You can’t really argue against that. You can argue that it makes more sense to be selfish, but it’s still selfishness. Also, when you try to defend your position, you rely on spurious arguments that aren’t backed by facts, so you make up your own. I’d respect people like you a little bit more if you just come out and admitted that you just happen to be more selfish than most humans on the planet and you want to impose that selfishness on your fellow countrymen. You want as much as you can get and screw everyone else. Congratulations. You’re representatives have been succeeding at what you want. God bless America.

One last thing, if you are really so interested in liberty for all, then you must be a strong advocate for publicly financed elections because without that we have very little say in how our country is run. Those who pay for our politicians’ campaigns call the shots. Are we at least in agreement on that?

All the debate in the world will not change the fact that this is just another unsustainable government program that will ultimately collapse under it own weight. Debating the issue of whether to keep Obamacare or repeal it is irrelevant, it cannot work the same as any big government program is doomed to ultimate failure.

Self governance, small government, self reliance, being a responsible citizen and parent, taking care of your family and not relying on government, saving and not spending beyond your means, working hard, and entrepreneurial enterprise is what made this country great.

As long as people keep looking to the government to solve all of their problems this country will continue to decline. My only hope is that when the collapse comes there will be enough people with the fortitude and courage to embrace the founding principles that made us a great nation. The time for living off of the backs of all the sacrifices of all of the great Americans that came before us is coming to a quick end!

WELL SAID ginchinchili!!!!!!!!

Someone Please help my understand…..

ginchinchili wrote:
“It’s just a shame and international embarrassment that, thanks to America’s rightwing extremist movement, the United States, the richest country in the world, ……”

Please explain how the U.S.A with well over 14 Trillion dollars of debt can be the “richest country in the world.” Now, I know the U.S.A has a real hard time with honesty so if this 14 trillion dollar figure came from the govt. then the true number must be much, much larger.

So…. here is where my understand is having a real hard time with the above statement; If I borrow 14 trillion dollars from China will I be the richest man in the world? Or will become a slave to the lender?

Every body knows even the Republicans that the Health care is the rightful thing to do. They know that this will eventually help to reduce the deficit in the long run. It will be less burden on the Government to provide health for people that might be working or have a small business but still cannot afford the high cost of health care. This give all of us more options to shop around for better prices. Just like the telephone and cable companies and all the companies that did not have competition and whose prices were dead high. As soon as more companies come along they started offering better deals. The power is about competition and those who oppose it are the ones who fear competition!

America needs this bill. As the world’s greatest plutocracy, American healthcare reform has brought in millions of new customers to big insurance corporations under the government enforced, mandated insurance policy. For the first time, Mr. Obama has shown he is capable of using the awesome power of government to bolster and encourage the struggling private insurance industry. After all, in the end, it is they who will be the financial engine in healthcare reform by giving the United States a 36th world ranking, not just 37th.