Murder in god's name?
What a surprise.

"... xxxxx believe that their founder, xxxxxxx xxxxxx, was a prophet and messiah. This, of course, contradicts orthodox strains of xxxxxx, which all hold that xxxxxxxx was the final prophet."

Oh THAT old chestnut.

(Where X = any religion, saviour, prophet, god, or superstition you fancy)

Between the constant barbarism out of Pakistan and stories such as this, it is hard to keep an open mind on Islam.

LaContra/

To blame all religious groups, when the guilty party and the victims were both Muslim, seems highly disingenuous at best, not to mention flippant. It's like blaming both the rapist and the victim for the crime.

I'm a muslim and watching the video (widely distributed through link in tweets) did brought a chill to the bone.

I hope those mob are brought to justice.

But the article is quite wrong. Muhammad as the final prophet is not an orthodox strain of Islam. It is one of the six basic pillars of faith in Islam.

Your article also failed to mention that many ulema organizations in Indonesia (MUI, NU, Muhammadiyah, you name it) have since 1980 declared that Ahamadiyah's belief is not part of muslim faith.

Muhammad as the final prophet is not a notion to bargain with. This is not an academic discussion where you can have rooms for debate.

A lot of Indonesian children remembered (well I remember) the history taught at school when a man (Musaillamah the liar) claimed to be a prophet and the first chalipate, Abu Bakr, sent an army to finish him.

It's clearly stated in Quran that Muhammad is the final prophet (Al Ahzab, 33:40). And Muhammad himself (Praise be upon him) has said that 'there's no prophet after me'.

Claiming to be a prophet is not something light in the eye of Islam, and the first muslim generations responded by waging a war.

(You might want to read some history about that to understand the harsh treatment of Ahmadiyah).

There is a heated debate in Indonesian TV tonight. "Should we wage a war against Ahmadiyah like the era of Musaillamah the liar?" ask a lawmaker, torn between angry and sad.

In case of Ahmadiyah, sometimes I found article which doesnt give proportional understanding to the notion that Muhammad-is-the-last-prophet is a very basic tenet of Islam, and to give impression as if it's a light-hearted matter and muslims are supposed to welcome different ideas.

It's not a light-hearted matter. That notion is not opened to different ideas. Other religions may have more tolerance for fake prophets. But in Islam, the six pillars of faith is not negotiable.

The first muslim generations didnt take it lightly to those who modify it, and journalist writing about Islam should understand it too if he/she wants to give a deeper perspective.

Ahmadiyah case is not as simple as 'freedom of religions' things. It's a joke to expect muslims scholars to sit together with Ahmadiyah and have a dialogue of faith.

Why dont you ask The Grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar, Egypt, the oldest teaching institution in Sunni Islam? The Grand Sheikh could even make peace with Jews but not with Ahmadiyah (they also have declared Ahmadiyah as outside Islam)

But then there's the killing, which ulema organizations in Indonesia (the biggest are NU and Muhammadiyah) said it's also against Islamic principles. Taking lives unjustifiably is not an easy thing in Islam and it might grant you a straight ticket to hell...

And so far the ulema (NU and Muhammadiyah again) position about Ahmadiyah are they are against it, but they dont support violence against Ahmadiyah followers, and ask muslims to let Indonesian government handles the Ahmadiyah sect.

But in grass root level such call is often not heard. And the government practically didnt do anything about Ahmadiyah until things like this happen.

Because normally if Indonesian Ulema Council has issued a decree that a certain group is 'outside Islam', the police will act by capturing their followers in the name of religious blasphemy (an offence in Indonesian penal code). The police have done it to some other sects in Indonesia before. They capture the leaders, imprisoned them and make a case in court. but they didnt do it to Ahmadiyah because frankly it's already big and already an international sect.

I feel sorry for Ahmadiyah victims. In fact I dont watch the lynching video until the end 'coz I dont have a heart to watch it..

Those killers must be brought to justice. Ahmadiyah followers have the constitutional right to live just like other Indonesian citizen.

But their belief about Mirza Gulam Ahmad (the fake prophet) is wrong, and if such belief is supported in the name of 'religious freedom', that's wrong too.

"So how can you acknowledge their constitutional rights to live in freedom, without fear, but you dont recognize their constitutional rights to practice their own-version of Islam?" you may ask.

I know. It's complicated. But that's also the position of the two largest muslim organizations in Indonesia, NU and Muhammadiyah.

And that's why I dont like this over-simplified story.

This was a most barbaric act by a band of people who have lost all sense of humanity. They were like beasts - and killing members of the Ahmadiyya sect while chanting Allaho Akbar - Allah is great.
These people don't represent Islam. Islam says "there is no compulsion in religion" and is a religion of peace. Killing because you don't agree with someone else' belief is a distorted idea of the deluded Islamic clerics and their ignorant followers.

Ahmadis have always professed and lived by their motto 'Love for All, Hatred for none'. They have never reacted in an untoward manner whenever a calamity has befallen them. This is the commandment in the Holy Qur'an - to remain steadfast and seek help with prayers. Head of Ahmadiyya Movement has instructed all his followers to keep up the prayers and not to react in any way to this horrific incident. This is an example of steadfastness and patience that world has rarely seen.

Also I would like to clarify what @asalin has said. He is wrong saying that Prophet 'Muhammad being the last Prophet' is one of the six pillars of Islam. It is not - the fundamental belief is is probably referring to is 'Belief in all the Prophets'. Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was 'Seal of the Prophets' and the last 'Law-bearing Prophet' as per the Holy Qur'an. The Ahmadis believe this more than anyone.

In addition the person is wrong when he said that false prophets like Musailmah was killed because he was a 'false prophet'. That is totally wrong. Musailmah had declared prophethood at time of the Holy Prophet(saw) but he was not punished. It was only at the time of the first Caliph, Abu Bakr, that Musailma rebelled. An army was sent to put down the rebellion - not because he was a false prophet. Asalin should read his history again.

Kim 77

I didn't lay blame with all religious groups.
And neither is my post disingenuous

I left it open to anyone to insert whatever deity, spirit, god they liked into the quote provided.....

Because it works for any religious extremism doesn't it?....

Basically everyone arguing that their god saviour prophet is the true one?

..and no, its got nothing to do with rape...unless that part of someone's religion too of course.

There is no God and religion is a lie that only the foolish, the ignorant or those who have vested interest accept.

So much for Indonesia and Malaysia being "model Islamic democracies". Both are in the news lately for burning of churches and for blatant discrimination and violence against their non-muslim minorities.

Let's face it. Giving freedom and democracy to muslims is like putting lipstick on a pig. Muslims will never find peace as long as they are under the tyranny and oppression of Islam. If they don't have infidels to hate, they'd be hating on their own. The Religion of Peace? What a laugh. More like the Religion of Hate. Hate is what makes the muslim world go round.

@BailoutNation "Hate is what makes the muslim world go round."
You draw an extreme conclusion from specific events which are not representative. One does not have to be Muslim to see the fallacy of your argument.

@BailoutNation: Your comments are helpful, because they are purposefully incendiary and insulting.

Anyway, I think many here have missed the point of the article. This is a law and order problem. The national police force seems to lack guidance and competence, and the problem could start with elected officials. The usual political cowardice in the face of an easy answer? Most likely.

I meant to say, that BailoutNation's comment was NOT helpful.

"It's like blaming both the rapist and the victim for the crime."

Which, by the way, the Muslim countries are very prone to do.

Agree with Baltimoron and shame on BailoutNation. This is a law and order problem, not a religious one. There are always mobs who will be more than happy to lynch others, especially minorities, and it is the role of the state to prevent that from happening.

In Gujarat, Hindus were happily killing 1,000 Muslims less than 10yrs ago under the watchful eye of Mr Modi, and he seems to be doing fine according to this week's print edition (http://www.economist.com/node/18070376?story_id=18070376). Pretty much every minority has gone through something like this, with religion often being used as the excuse by the mob. Nothing Islam-specific there.

This does illustrate how much a problem corruption at the top is a major problem for the people at the bottom in developing democracies (think India, South Africa..).

Finally, not to downplay the atrocity of it all, but individual incidents do not necessarily reflect the state of the whole country (although I think this one does reflect corruption at the top), let alone of a whole religion whose practice varies significantly across the globe. This is a result of the failure of the Indonesian state, not of the Koran.

Also, asalin, your comment is shocking.

You basically say: "I feel sorry for these guys, because they do have a constitutional right to live without fear of being stabbed to death, but on the other hand, their so-called religion is nothing but a bundle of lies, so tough. I also feel sorry for the mob, as they may go to hell."

Looks like you have the same reaction as SBY then.

So who's surprised? Typically muslim, kill, kill, kill and elsewhere they demand tolerance!

@Cu9euZ3GEs islam also says " slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush." which abrogates the "there is no compulsion in religion". If you don't know what abrogate means I suggest you look it up.

I am not surprised by this article because everytime I hear a muslim claim they are peaceful against non-muslims or people of their own faith that doesn't believe the exact same thing as they do I just read stuff like this and I know those people are full of crap and have no clue what the koran says or anything about how their religion started or grew to the size it is now.

Islam is the religion of peace. This is a law and order issue, just like all those honor killings, 9/11, Bali, Mumbai, Madrid subway, London Subway bombings...

Sweet land of denial...

Muslim's and all those murders who kill in the name of God - who aparently doesn't exist. Why don't you realize that, what you are doing it utter non-sense. Don't you murders have brain?. Why don't you realize that somebody is exploiting you or you are exploiting somebody to do inhuman things. What did you gain by killing another human being? Did Allah reward you immediately with a million dollars or did he/she bless your son or daughter with all wealth, knowledge and prosperity? Fools, drop the weapons in your possession, go wash your hands for it has blood in it. We have only one world and only one life. Do good and be happy. Love your wife, children and friends. Don't waste time on God he/she does not exist.

The first word in my earlier comment is "Muslims".

Is it not up to [the huge majority of] decent members of any religion to expel those who pervert their religion to justify such actions?