Mar 2nd 2011, 16:53 by R.L.G. | LONDON
IT'S "Divided By a Common Language Day", apparently. A colleague stuck his head in my office to ask, with a puzzled tone, "Do Americans know the word 'ponce'?" I told him no, I didn't reckon most Americans did, unless they were familiar with the British slang. "Why?" He showed me a news article about Robert Gates, the American secretary of defence, sending the USS Ponce to the coast of Libya. We had a laugh, as I told him I was fairly sure the ship's name has two syllables, and was probably named after Juan Ponce de León, who discovered Florida for Spain and was the first governor of Puerto Rico. (I was almost right; it was named after the Puerto Rican city, which was named after the explorer.)
But as we talked it out, wheels within wheels emerged. I remembered Ponce de León Avenue in Atlanta, where I grew up, and the fact that everyone in town called it simply "Ponce", one syllable, like the British slang. I realised that I don't know what the Ponce's sailors call their ship. If it's one syllable, like Atlanta's avenue, we were back to an American warship with a name that suggests a pretentious or effeminate man in Britain. If it's two syllables, the Americans would have to be careful to call it the PON-say, with the Spanish pronunciation of the second vowel, and resist the urge to Americanise to PON-see. Because they would then be sailing the USS "Poncey". This would also make joint manoeuvres with the Royal Navy tricky, as the latter's sailors would be giggling uncontrollably.
Then I found this, from the Associated Press, saying the ship should be called the Pon-SAY. Well, that avoids the giggling problem, but the Spanish name Ponce definitely doesn't have the stress on the second syllable, so I'm not sure I trust the AP on this one. Finally, I discovered on Urban Dictionary that some of the definitions for "ponce" do seem to be written by Americans, so my snap judgment that the slang wasn't used stateside could be at least partly wrong. What a mess. The naming committees over at the Pentagon need to consider a little googling before breaking that champagne across the bow, and leaving a warship stuck with a name that could confuse at best, and embarrass at worst.
In this blog, named after the dictionary-maker Samuel Johnson, our correspondents write about the effects that the use (and sometimes abuse) of language have on politics, society and culture around the world
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And people in the US ask each other for a ride not a lift.
The Americans who wrote the Urban dictionary entries you've seen must be familiar with British slang, or perhaps were anglophiles trying to introduce it to American English. 'Ponce' is unknown in the US, at least in the West Coast and New York lexicons that I am familiar with.
ponSAY sounds 'right' to me. Americans tend to make all foreign words sound "French-ish" so a stressed -AY ending would be normal. The guy is usually called - in my experience - Ponce de leeON or sometimes de layON. (Or Pouncy the Lion.)
However, the fact that Brits have a slang word that's spelled like an American city shouldn't disqualify that city from having a warship named after it.
I'm afraid I don't see the conflict. Have you seen their uniforms?
You shouldn't count on southerners' pronunciations, as they are truely unique on the planet. There is a town in Georgia named "Cairo" that is pronounced "Kay-Row". The street in Atlanta is pronounced "pon-s" by the locals, but in Puerto Rico it is pronounced "pon-seh" (not a long "pon-SAY", but a short "seh" sound). Of course, we anglos tend to butcher spanish pronunciations anyway.
In Georgia, I have also seen the word "Houston" (which is pronounced "hew-stun" by everyone else) pronounced "House-ston". The word pecan is a "pee-can" in Georgia, and a "puh-khan" everywhere else.
Of course, I shouldn't pick on Georgia exclusively. I was originally born in Missouri, where we have towns named Milan (MY-lan), Versailles (Ver-SAILS), Creve Couer (kreeve-coor), Auxvasse (ox-VASS-y), and Rolla, which was named after Sir Walter Raleigh, but nobody could apparently spell back when the town was founded.
I humbly submit that the naming of US vessels (which is generally after US cities/states, famous battles, or famous people) not be held hostage to the whims of another country's slang. And certainly not a country that launched an entire fleet of "Gay class" boats! (See http://www.bmpt.org.uk/boat%20histories/gay%20class/index.htm)
'And certainly not a country that launched an entire fleet of "Gay class" boats!'
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
But go on.
i don't know why British people think American people care about British slang?
"Not that there is anything wrong with that. But go on."
Apparently blog author R.L.G. thinks there IS something wrong with that, given that his original complaint was that "Ponce" is apparently "a name that suggests a pretentious or effeminate man in Britain". Hence the irony of Britain's "Gay class" boats.
@R.L.G. The USS Ponce's website doesn't say how the crew pronounces "Ponce," but it helpfully gives contact information. The ship's public affairs officer could tell you.
Man, being half illiterate and completely unsophisticated sure saves a lot of embarrassment.
Juan Ponce de León was searching for the legendary Fountain of Youth when he accidentally discovered Florida. There is a "World Famous" Fountain of Youth Archaeological Park, a Ponce de León Blvd. (U.S. 1) and a Ponce de León Mall in St. Augustine, Fla.
He's is to St. Augustine what "Peachtree" is to Atlanta.
@Ridger and Dan Jose.
I don't think its a case of caring but simply as case of "two peoples divided by a common language"?...and thus humorous...maybe lighten up a little?
@goudreau
Thanks for the link...the class of boat was 'Gay' but the associated names just tops it off!...Patrol Boats named:
Gay Centurion
Gay Fencer
Gay Cavalier
Gay Bruiser
Gay Charger
In light of this information I think we'll have to give the USS Ponce a pass.
:)
I have an off-the-wall theory to explain the "looking up to" in the proper pronunciation of English words. Sort of a subtle subtext in this article. I think all the junk in American television has led to a degration of the language while all the nice BBC programs imported from UK continue to raise the level of quality, and hence respect, for what might be considered "culturally British". Now even the correct pronunciation of a US carrier name can potentially ignite a battle on how it should be done. I'd say if US paid for the making of it, let US pronounce it the way it wants.
It probably won't be a problem in joint maneuvers, since the USS Ponce will most likely be called "Papa" - from the phonetic alphabet - on the radio and in the plot rooms.
As long as they don't say "Daddy"...
This is perfectly consistent with American policy vis a vis gays in the military.
Perhaps the blogger should look up "Johnson" in the slang dictionary as well.
Buena Park, CA, home of Knott's Berry Farm, was always called "Byoona Park" by the locals during the 50s and before. Calling it the correct Spanish pronunciation, "Bwayna"(phonetic) always drew a lot of laughs.
@hwilker (Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot?) Delta
As an Officer who has served briefly aboard USS PONCE (LPD-15), i can say that the crew pronounces it USS "PON-SAY".
i'd like to add i think it is awesome that the Economist is blogging about a gator constructed in the 60s and not some flashy new destroyer.
Long live the Gator Navy.