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PL123
sorry I forgot this: you say that I must be fair to all races. Of course, but race is not really the question here because Islam is not a race - it is an ideology.
PL123
Please....! German special interest groups, well yes, but they are Germans and they are in their own country, so they are in a totally different position as compared to new coming immigrants from totally different cultures. "Religion consideration"....? Look - Islam is not only a religion, it is in fact an ideology and that is what makes it so different, so difficult (impossible, I would say) to integrate in our western societies.
"....but no laws really fit everyone...." How true, but any civilized society needs laws that must be obeyed by everyone - whether they "fit" or not - and in a homogenous society, or in a society with common values, norms and culture, such laws are more likely to "fit" and be obeyed by everybody. In a society that is too diverse, or disparate, law and order, as you want (me too, by the way) is more difficult to impose. Observers of Islam consider that their religion is a law in itself, and that is what makes co-existence between Muslims and westerners so difficult.
We can go on discussing but my view is that Islam and western civilization are incompatible. We can trade together, exchange tourists and travelers, perhaps even learn a bit from one another, appreciate each others art and history but sorry, unfortunately I don't think we can live together. Human nature again....
PL123
Yes, I have heard something about Mafia involvement in the Pizza business (? or whatever it was, but wasn't that an exception? I don't know about Vietnamese but there really aren't that many. True enough, some immigrant groups pose problems but in the case of Muslims - whether in Germany, France or elsewhere - it seems not to be passing problems but real deep seated problems that cause serious friction and in time may lead to confrontation. Look at Lebanon - we don't want that in Europe.
OK, you say that the country must make clear laws, and with that I agree. But these laws must also be respected and obeyed. By everybody, and that is sometimes a problem because Muslims too often demand exemptions and special treatment.
PL123
To "raise the entrance gate" as you and a co-commenter suggest is only part of the solution. The real problem with Muslim immigrants is that they create their own parallel societies, ghettoes if you like, and there will always be some friction between Muslims and the host society. The cultural divide is simply too great. It is a pity that this is sometimes being portrayed as being racist or xenophobia. All people are simply not made to co-exist. Blame human nature.
Congratulations Sahit Muja.
Does that mean that Albania will soon recieve immigrants from North Africa and Central Africa?
@JGradus
Actually the first real serious hit was back in 1982 when the SEK devalued by 17 per cent. That, in my opinion, was partly a consequence of our living beyond our means but also because the cost of immigration started to make itself felt. The big one was 27 per cent in 1993, also a partly a consequence of immigration costs. I saw Sweden gradually losing its economic top placing as the successive waves of immigrants arrived, and I am worried about the future as the cultural, social and economic costs rise.
PL123
No, not close the gate to all foreigners, only to those who cannot be integrated and those who are a cultural and economic burden for our societies - like they do in Canada and the US. Languages can be learnt, and very often English is sufficient in the early "transition" period. But I agree that Europe may be less attractive than the US or Canada. And even inside EU we have some immigration restrictions; if not there would be a mass migration from some countries to others.
PL123
Was I a bit racist? Not consciously, but I shall not be a hypocrite and swear that I am totally free from being racist. I believe that - again unconsciously - there is a bit of racist in all of us. I appreciated your comment to Germanborn Turk that we all have double standards. It is a little bit like, well.... we are perhaps all a bit racist.
pename
Yes, I agree with you that Europe wants the good immigrants, somewhat like Canada and the US where the entry criteria are much harder than in Europe. We do not want other countries to export their social problems to us; we would rather like them to fix their own problems, get some valid schooling, make fewer babies, perhaps even pray less and work harder instead of just exporting their excess population to our countries. And we must wake up to the fact and admit that Islam and western values are incompatible. If not we may soon see parts of Europe going the way Lebanon did.
Sorry, pename, but it has to do with the survival of our nations.
Some of you must remember The Marx Brothers. Groucho Marx made a comment in the 1940s: "I would not like to be a member of a club that wants me as a member".
Times have changed. To-day some apparently want to be a member of a club that does NOT want them as a member.
Why?
KoolTurk please, take it easy, don't be so touchy.
"I cannot be subject to any of your racial slurs, which was very insulting." Where was my "racial slurs"?
"The best you do so far is to provoke people, make your insults and sit back and laugh, huh? And when your comments are already deleted, you apologize. Typical."
As I said, I did only intend a little jest and only a very sensitive person would see an insult in my posting. And use some logic now: of course I could only apologize AFTER the deletion, i.e. after I had discovered that the jest hurt you; I had no reason to apologize before, had I? And "Typical" -- typical of what?
KoolTurk, you should see some postings that other commenters, notably German, French and English throw at each other on some blogs without being offended. Some just laugh, others pay back in kind. They are not so sensitive, so why are you?
JGradus
Yes, the economy seems to be doing okay at the moment. However, I am referring to that Sweden which I knew before the mass of unintegrable immigrants took place. That was when a Swedish krona could buy 1,30 Danish and (pre-Euro) a French franc was on par with the SEK which, calculated by to-days euro value would mean 6,60 SEK to the Euro. That was also the time when the Swedish per capita GNP was number two in the world.
Sorry, JG, but the long term prospects for good old Sweden worry me. There is friction all around which sooner or later risk turning into conflicts.
pename
Yes, what you refer to is just as appalling, however, there is a difference: they were home made and unfortunately they seem to exist everywhere. But why import rapists as Sweden did?
@HealthySkepticism
Thanks for the link. Appalling! I lived in Sweden myself from 1969 to 1997 and I saw how they did just about everything wrong in matters of immigration. Sweden somehow wanted to save the world but destroyed their own country in the process. But worse: they won't admit it, and only last year did they start to timidly look at the truth when a realistic political party (the Swedish Democrat) finally got over 4 per cent of the votes which allowed them entry to the Parliament.
I just saw that my comment about KoolTurk not being cool any longer has been deleted by the Moderator. I apologize to KoolTurk if he was offended - I was only trying a bit of jest, but I also regret that there seem to be a certain lack of humoristic sense. It seems to me that if a joke of similar nature had been made between Europeans nobody would have taken offense, but in the present case it kind of reveals a difference in culture.
@Flying Falcon
What I mean by "generous" is that those who return to their erstwhile homelands shall be given full financial assistance, they shall naturally get pension allowances already earned here in Europe and they shall get some form of re-settlement help. In other words they shall be treated fairly - they shall not lose by returning.
As regards your view of Europe I must say that I do not share your pessimistic opinion. During the ages Europe has been through pests and cholera, famines, wars, invasions, social upheavals, revolutions and what not, but in the end we survived and actually came away stronger. There is still some mileage left in the Europeans - we just have to get out of the present negative mood which, in my opinion, to a large extent has been created by the politically correctness and the depressing effect of mass immigration from the third world.
PL123
England is a Multi-Culti, but not Germany, you say. Well yes and no. Cameron also made a speech beginning of February declaring multiculturalism dead, however, I do agree that there is a certain "mild" multi-culturalism anyway. The problem, it seems, is only when Islam is involved.
Erdogan is right when he says:
".......If you do not want to take Turkey into the European Union then say it clearly and openly,” he huffed."
If our European politicians do not have the guts to tell Turkey this simple truth I suggest we have a quick Europe-wide referendum which our timorous and politically correct cowards of politicians can hide behind. It seems obvious to me that Turkey shall not become an EU member quite simply because it is not European, neither culturally nor geographically, nor in any other way. And since the Turkish economy is doing so well wouldn't it be an idea to start a phased out and generous repatriation of those Turks in Europe who are not integrated in our societies? They could then become an additional asset for Turkey.
Remember: multiculturalism has officially been declared dead now.
@PL123
Yes, I understand that, but once again it makes me wonder - both Libya and Algeria have huge numbers of unemployed, many of whom try to escape to Europe, and at the same time they import labor from China. We see the same thing in the Gulf area where labor is imported from the Philippines, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, etc.
This leads to a question: can't the Arabs do anything themselves?
Germanambassador, please!
Not that I care much about your postings - I only responded once, several months ago, in order to tell you that Germany is liked and respected by us other Europeans. But on the subject of Germany's "merchandise navy" you could at least call it by its real name: Merchant fleet or Merchant Marine, but not Navy!
And if you want to count the number of vessels owned, operated, managed, controlled by German ship owners and managers then take a walk around Hamburg, Bremen, Flensburg, Stade, Rostock, Wismar, Elfsfleth, Kiel, Cuxhaven, Brunsbüttel, Lübeck, and so forth.
It will take you a couple of months, but you will have learnt a lot about your country's "merchandise navy".