The trouble with Ottomania

Leaning to the east, Turkey must still look west

Europe

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anadolulu wrote:
Nov 23rd 2010 3:22 GMT

This article presents a set of complicated relationships between Turkey and its neighbors on the one hand, and between Turkey and the West on the other, as a false dichotomy where one or the other can exist, but not both.

For decades, Turks were told that they were surrounded by enemies and that Turks had no friends in the World but themselves. Paradoxically, this xenophobic worldview was encouraged by the very same people who ostensibly believed in the principle "Peace at home, peace abroad." This slight inconsistency notwithstanding, an imaginary fear of "internal and external" enemies systematically instilled in the masses was an essential part of the plan to keep them docile and in check by a State that never trusted its people.

Present AK Party government seems to be trying to reverse this policy of seeing only enemies beyond their borders. They are actively mending fences and renewing friendships with all their neighbors, including "eternal enemies" like Greece. In this effort they should be commended, not criticized. Like many countries, Turkey can maintain a healthy relationship with its neighbors without turning its back on its allies in the West.

nyoped wrote:
Nov 24th 2010 4:09 GMT

"Leaning to the east" "Looking to the west". These phrases imply possibilities of future. However, the present is more worthy of a discussion.

Let's step back to NOW:

Erdogan and his ruling party has been oppressing the opposition for years now.

PRESS:
The biggest media group (Dogan Media) in Turkey has been silenced with a 3 billion dollar fine. The second biggest media group (Sabah/ATV) has been seized by the government and handed over to a company where Erdogan's son is an executive. The oldest secular newspaper (Cumhuriyet) in Turkey has been oppressed (its editors have been arrested).

CIVIL OPPOSITION:
The organizers of one of the biggest rallies against Erdogan's movement have been in prison for more than two years now (charges are yet to be disclosed). Offices of major non-profit organizations with ties to any sort of opposition movement have been raided by cops.

Almost all opposition figures have been wiretapped. When they cross the line (meaning, daring to criticize Erdogan) the tapes detailing their private lives are served to the public.

When a respected high ranking police officer wrote a book criticizing the Islamic fraternity, he was arrested for ridiculous charge.

This is NOW! This is Erdogan's rule.

anadolulu wrote:
Nov 25th 2010 10:01 GMT

Ahh, the dirt-bucket brigade has returned! nyoped, we had almost missed you!

I have to admit I have not been following the Dogan Media'a trials and tribulations too closely, but I know they were facing massive tax evasion charges. They have already been convicted of some of those charges, and they appear to be trying to plea-bargain out of the rest, with the intention of paying only a miniscule portion of what they owe to the Treasury. It is not clear how all this will be resolved, but my personal feeling is that they should not be allowed to get away with theft, and tax evasion is theft directly from the people of Turkey.

Sabah/ATV was seized by the Savings Deposits and Insurance Fund (TMSF), as briefly explained here:

"TMSF is a government organization that repossesses the assets of companies and individuals and are either unable to pay their bills, have defaulted on loans and declared bankruptcy or have been prosecuted for illegal practices. The case with Merkez Yayin Media [that owned Sabah/ATV] is that secret contracts were signed between the owner of a seized bank and the current owner of Merkez Yayin, basically sharing ownership. These documents were later uncovered and since the owner of Etibank owed somewhere in the region of $900 million, the media assets were seized. Here is an excerpt:
Bilgin Group's approximately $900 million debt to the TMSF is due largely to Etibank. In April, following the exposure of secret agreements between Etibank's leading partner Dinç Bilgin and the head of Merkez Group, Turgay Ciner, the TMSF took over the management and supervision rights of Bilgin and Merkez Group's 73 companies showing activity in the media sector. After the TMSF had confiscated Bilgin's Etibank in 2000, Ciner purchased ATV and Sabah in 2005 by signing a protocol with Bilgin and the TMSF."

http://grandstandingtraction.blogspot.com/2007/09/turkey-to-auction-off-...

Later they were sold at an *open* auction for $1.1 billion to the Calik Group, as explained here:

"(Reuters) - Turkey accepted a $1.1 billion bid for the country's second-largest media firm, ATV-Sabah, from unlisted Calik Group on Wednesday, taking the minimum price for the seized assets after other bidders dropped out."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSIST00141020071205

"The Civil Opposition" you talk about was unhappy with the potential selection of Abdullah Gul to the Presidency because of his wife's headscarf. He was later elected to that position by an overwhelming support of the people (he got over 65% in the election that followed those demonstrations), while your "opposition" was busy openly calling for a fascist military coup d'etat.

Speaking of NOW, recently, and for the first time in the Republic's history, three generals were removed from their positions by the civilian government because they are under indictment for taking part in Ergenekon and other related attempts to overthrow an elected government. Yes, this NOW is much better than the good old days that you and your openly fascist cohorts long for.

dog007 wrote:
Nov 25th 2010 11:50 GMT

John Peet

the reality is not as black and white as you painted in your article!

Turkey can build a better relation with europe and improve democratic standards while strengthing relations with it's neighbours this is what AKP government is trying to do and they donot contradict each other!

another important issue AKP is trying to address is the solution of the Kurdish issue. AKP is a first turkish adminstration to aknowledge the problem and take a slow but important steps to solve it. the most important is the ongoing negotiation with the PKK Leader.

as for Israel, Turkey does not need Israel but Israel need Turkey for obvious reasons like to conduct airforce training and water sources etc.

comment. wrote:
Nov 27th 2010 10:59 GMT

When it was possible to revisit Brave New World in 1958, that was stated in it: " A society, most of whose members spend a great part of their time, not on the spot, not here and now and in the calculable future, somewhere else, in the irrelavent worlds of sport and soap opera, of mythology and metaphysical fantasy, will find it hard to resist the encroachments of those who would manipulate and control it." Good reminders.

nyoped wrote:
Nov 29th 2010 6:00 GMT

Thanks to the Wikileaks, now we know that Erdogan and his party had plans to finish Dogan Media for good.

I expect that anadolulu, the islamist, will describe Wikileaks as the dirt-bucket brigade.

nyoped wrote:
Nov 29th 2010 6:03 GMT

Finance Minister Mehmet Şimşek encouraged a group of investors in London to sell their stock in the Doğan Media Group because the company “won’t be around much longer,” according to a document leaked Sunday by whistle-blowing site WikiLeaks.

Şimşek denied the report Monday, saying that it was “just a bunch of lies.”

The finance minister allegedly made the comments on Sept. 15, 2008, during the height of a spat between Doğan, the country’s largest media group, and the ruling Justice and Development Party, or AKP.

The report, prepared by U.S. Embassy to Ankara official Daniel O'Grady, said the conflict erupted after Prime Minster Recep Tayyip Erdoğan lashed out at the Doğan Group for reporting on allegations in a German court that the German-based Lighthouse e.V. laundered funds to individuals in Turkey close to Erdoğan and the ruling AKP.

“This battle could be seen as just a very direct and personal fight between two titans,” O’Grady wrote in his report.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=minister-warns-investor-on-doga...

PolitixGurl wrote:
Nov 30th 2010 11:50 GMT

How sad it is to see someone as immature, selfish and all around childish be the leader of what used to be a wonderful country. Erdogan is only thinking of himself and of course he's backing away from the west! He wants nothing to do with secular people, he wants to turn Turkey back in time and undo everything that Atatürk worked so hard to change and he's well on his way to doing this. What I can't seem to understand is how on earth people would vote for him and his minions and not only once, but TWICE! How interesting is it that all these private phone conversations are becoming public, all these people are getting arrested and being questioned and why? All because they made fun of Erodgan or said something that he didn't like and oh how nice, because he's the prime minister he can abuse his power and either throw them in jail or get them fired! What is this?! It's sad I think, truly, truly sad to see what's becoming of Turkey because of Erdogan and his minions..Erdogan punishes those who go against him and his minions views and of course rewards those who agree with him and his views..and this man is the prime minister of Turkey? Seriously, everytime I hear his voice on TV or see him, I honestly cringe...

anadolulu wrote:
Dec 1st 2010 3:55 GMT

nyoped,

WikiLeaks is not the "dirt-bucket brigade." I'm not sure if these documents should have been released like that, but in general, I believe WikiLeaks is doing a valuable service to all of us.

When evaluating those documents, however, we have to keep in mind that for the most part, they are not factual statements but unfiltered opinions of various individuals with their own views, biases, and agendas.

The claims that you quote against the Turkish Finance Minister Simsek have the sound, taste, and smell of National Enquirer stories about celebrities. Only someone like you, blinded with his own prejudices and mudslinging, can fail to see how absurd and preposterous they are. A Finance Minister, advising some investor group to sell their shares in anything, let alone a media conglomerate under investigation by his government for tax evasion, would be so beyond the pale, I suspect it could happen only in your utterly corrupt imagination. In fact, I strongly suspect even you and your paymasters don't believe those claims. But the goal is mudslinging, isn't it? Maybe some of it will stick?

No, unfortunately, for you. It won't.

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