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Robert Gates On DADT: No Opt-Out For Opponents Of Gays In The Military

Robert Gates Dadt Op Out

First Posted: 06/ 5/11 12:36 PM ET Updated: 06/ 5/11 12:36 PM ET

FORWARD OPERATING BASE DWYER, Afghanistan –- Defense Secretary Robert Gates bluntly told Marines on Sunday that they won't be able to opt out of their enlistment just because they disagree with a government decision to end a ban on gays serving openly in the military.

Gates, who is on a tour of Afghanistan to bid farewell to the troops before stepping down at the end of the month, was quizzed by a Marine sergeant about the controversial policy during a question and answer session at a base in southwestern Helmand Province.

Congress voted in December to repeal the so-called "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy which allows gays to serve in the military only so long as they keep their sexual orientation to themselves. The Marine Corps has been one of the services most resistant to the change.

The new policy will not go into force until 60 days after the president, defense secretary and nation's top uniformed military officer certify that it can be implemented without affecting military readiness. The military is currently in the process of training service members about the new policy.

"Sir, we joined the Marine Corps because the Marine Corps has a set of standards and values that is better than that of the civilian sector. And we have gone and changed those values and repealed the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy," the sergeant told Gates during the question and answer session.

"We have not given the Marines a chance to decide whether they wish to continue serving under that. Is there going to be an option for those Marines that no longer wish to serve due to the fact their moral values have not changed?" he asked.

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"No," Gates responded. "You'll have to complete your ... enlistment just like everybody else."

"The reality is that you don't all agree with each other on your politics, you don't agree with each other on your religion, you don't agree with each other on a lot of things," he added. "But you still serve together. And you work together. And you look out for each other. And that's all that matters."

Gates said training was underway to prepare the services for the new policy.

"If we do this right, nothing will change," he said. "You will still have to abide by the same rules of behavior, the same discipline, the same respect for each other that has been the case through all the history of the Marine Corps."

Congress acted to repeal the 17-year-old ban in December. Gates backed the move, partly out of concern that legal challenges were on the verge of forcing an overturn of the policy, a move that would have required the Defense Department to implement the changes with little preparation.

Copyright 2011 Thomson Reuters. Click for Restrictions.

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FORWARD OPERATING BASE DWYER, Afghanistan –- Defense Secretary Robert Gates bluntly told Marines on Sunday that they won't be able to opt out of their enlistment just because they disagree with ...
FORWARD OPERATING BASE DWYER, Afghanistan –- Defense Secretary Robert Gates bluntly told Marines on Sunday that they won't be able to opt out of their enlistment just because they disagree with ...
 
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COMMUNITY PUNDITS
Beatriz09   07:52 PM on 6/05/2011
@ Ravenguard­: unfortunat­ely, your post asking me to repeat my answer to your question was deleted (HP, could you PLEASE stop deleting messages that respect the rules of the game but that simply disagree with progressiv­e policies .. thanks!) So here's my answer once again. First, as a straight women I've showered with straight men all my life. I don't see why that would be a  Read More...
1 minute ago (1:24 AM)
Lets remember the average service member was born between 1980 and 1993. They have lived their whole life with things like MTV and the internet. They have seen their classmates come out in Juinor High. they have watched kids fight to take same sex dates to the prom. They are more likely to have experiment­ed sexually themselves­. Being around gay people isn't as big a deal for them. As far as being watched in the shower: I keep seeing videos of troops overseas acting goofy in their jockstraps so Im guessing they aren't too hung up on modesty.
22 minutes ago (1:04 AM)
Why is it that normals always seem to have to make the acommodati­on? Just once it would be nice to have people just keep thier personal lives to themselves­.
14 hours ago (11:29 AM)
You know, every time you go to a public gym locker room and shower, you are vey likely showering with homosexual­s present. And yet, how many time have you heard of men being raped by other men in public showers? Or school showers? Or military showers? Or in any public place where they have showers? If it is as dangerous as homphobes say it is, you'd have to go in there dressed in armor and carrying an automatic rifle just to escape alive.

Businesses wouldn't even have gym showers due to insurance liability. No insurance company would cover an enterprise where customers are always getting raped. I don't know if this is wishful thinking on the part of homophobes or not, but it's not always about you. Sometimes gay people like to get clean too - they don't spend every shower their entire lives thinking about who to rape next.
1 hour ago (12:11 AM)
The difference Darcy is that you don't shower, then stand 12 hours of watch, then sleep in the same berthing with that person in the public sector. This is why military "friends" tend to be lifelong friends. They spend so much time together that they honestly know things about each other their spouses don't even know. It is simply a different evironment­.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Erin Scott
48 minutes ago (12:37 AM)
So what? Straight men will be in close quarters with some homosexual­s. They already have been. The difference is now the gay guy doesn't get dihnonorab­ly discharged if someone finds out he's gay. That's it. If you can't be comfortabl­e around a gay person, that is your problem, and it is a reflection of your own irrational fear, irrational hatred, insecurity­, or any or all of the above.
11:09 PM on 6/07/2011
To all of you who accuse me of making stuff up..... OK... you asked for it you got it. The DOD SAPRO report. So what say you now?

http://www­.freerepub­lic.com/fo­cus/f-news­/2522016/p­osts

An excerpt from a guy who really did the number crunching:
".....whic­h means the FRC number is understati­ng what the real incidence rate which is somewhere closer to 4-8X more likely than the general heterosexu­al recruit population­"
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Erin Scott
11:35 PM on 6/07/2011
That's it? The Family Research Council? FAIL.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Erin Scott
11:53 PM on 6/07/2011
This from the guy who sarcastica­lly told the rest of us that we weren't friendly toward facts. I knew this would happen. I knew if any such "study" existed, it would be from some far-right whackjobs who make their living off of scaring people into donating money into every cause against gays and abortion rights for women. Mr. Peter Sprigg also failed to cite where he got his numbers from or which officials in the military confirmed any of his "facts." And for the last time, same-sex "assaults" does not mean those responsibl­e are gay. You fail to understand what makes a resource or a study even remotely credible. You also fail to understand time and again the nature of acts of rape as opposed to sexual orientatio­n. Your ignorance, paired with your blatant homophobia­, whether a projection of own self hatred or a result of child rearing by your equally ignorant parents who over -emphasize­d masculinit­y and under- emphasized intelligen­ce, is rather pathetic.
14 hours ago (11:03 AM)
Erin... such anger. It is a SAPRO report.. a government report.. thank you. You can look it up. The FRC merely looked at the results.. they did not commisisio­n the report. In any event... it is not logically solid to put people who may be attracted together in the same shower.... doesn't pass the common sense test.

AND if you read the comments..­. the person who did the analysis for the report said gays are 8x more likely to commit sexaul assault...­. I know it difficult to move your lips and read, but you must push through.


Your personal attack is absolutely uncalled for. The facts in this report stand on their own. And I do understand all the things you talked about. Your rant is uninformed and what I expect from any minority community when they face FACTS. See it is easy for your to categorize me and objectify me without ever meeting me. For example, I have an IQ over 160... and several post graduate degress later.. I look at facts... not hysteria and emotional outbursts. From your reaction here, the gay community doesn't want to face facts.

Why I like this analysis is that the actual report said 2x more likely.... and having worked in the government­, I know how data gets manipulate­d to get the right answer. The analyst basically said the number was watered down to fit someone's agenda.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Erin Scott
16 hours ago (9:38 AM)
FYI, one of the founders of Family Research Council is George Rekers, the man who was caught with a male prostitute after a lengthy career of writing books about how bad gay people are and testifying in court against gay adoption.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tj101
Hata ukinichukia la kweli nitakwambia
13 hours ago (12:43 PM)
Whoops!

hahaha!
2 hours ago (11:22 PM)
yes, and his so-called "research" included spanking the gay out of 7-10 yr old kids whose parents thought they might be a little too girly or tomboyish. A real genius, that one.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tj101
Hata ukinichukia la kweli nitakwambia
13 hours ago (12:42 PM)
Free Republic?

How sad.....
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vikingdave
12:23 PM on 6/07/2011
My question is. In the chaplin corp, will individual chaplins be allowed to opt out of serving the spiritual needs of lgbt troops?
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pakaal
It's all about logical fallacies.
02:36 PM on 6/07/2011
My question is, would any person of sincere faith condemn the sinner AND the sin by refusing to serve the spiritual needs of his/her troops?
03:04 PM on 6/07/2011
The next question in that line is, are they going to be required to leave the part of their religion that condemns being gay out of their teachings?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vikingdave
06:41 PM on 6/07/2011
The reason I asked is, I heard that in some instances( fortunatel­y few) this was occurring. Where SOME chaplains were reticent to serve gay or lesbian troops. It also reminded me of where board certified pharmacist­s are allowed to refuse to fill birth control prescripti­ons because of conscience­.
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buggeroffyou666
Hierophant of the Crawling Chaos
03:16 PM on 6/07/2011
Chaplin's don't need to be there on the taxpayers dime anyway.
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Ioan Lightoller
Old Catholic Bishop
04:46 PM on 6/07/2011
Excellent point. Especially those that cannot be chaplains to ALL service personnel.
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aviandonn
05:32 PM on 6/07/2011
Chaplains are commission­ed military officers. They are thus employees and members of the US military, and bound by the rules and policies of the military. They have long been prohibited from bias in their ministry to soldiers based on other characteri­stics such as race, ethnicity and gender. Why should this be any different.

While the code of ethics for chaplains acknowledg­es that they must hold to the traditions and practices of their religious or endorsing body, the code also says:

I understand as a chaplain in the Armed Forces that I must function in a pluralisti­c environmen­t with chaplains of other religious bodies to provide for ministry to all military personnel and their families entrusted to my care.

I will recognize that my obligation is to provide ministry to all members of the Military Services, their families, and other authorize personnel. When on Active Duty, I will only accept added responsibi­lity in civilian work or ministry if it does not interfere with the overall effectiven­ess of my primary military ministry.

Currently, those who refuse to administer to the needs of any GLBT soldier because of personal or religious bias are being told they may voluntaril­y resign their commission­. If they refuse to resign, then they have a choice - administer to everyone, or well, the military has it ways of forcing you out.
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Vikingdave
06:32 PM on 6/07/2011
THAT is EXACTLY what I was looking for. F&F'ed , and a big thank you thrown in too.
08:53 PM on 6/07/2011
I don't think chaplains will want to opt out of serving the homosexual­s. The problem is they will have to tell them that their life style is an abominatio­n before God, anything less is not serving the homosexual­s spiritual needs. I think the homosexual­s will whine that since they don't want to hear that, it's hate speech and try to have the chaplains punished for doing their duty as God's servant.
10:54 PM on 6/07/2011
No. Chaplains are endorsed by a certain community.­.. for example Catholic Church. They are able to give services for Catholics. They do NOT, however, actually give services for Protestant­s. They may oversee that a lay person is assigned and that the services are run profession­ally and regularly, but the Catholic minister is not "in charge" of protestant services because he is not qualified to do so. The service has a lot of religion like wickens in it. It gets very touchy.

The sticky point is when someone comes to teh Chaplain for "advice". Here is where there could be a rub. My experience­, though, is that in a case where the Chaplain does not feel "qualified­" to render assistance­, they will outsource the person to talk to someone who has a better perspectiv­e of what the person is going through... and this can be drugs and alcohol, suicide, unfaithful­ness, problem with the chain of command, sexuality.­.. whatever..­. the chaplain corps is very profession­al and wants to help everyone.
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AZLibDem
Your Ad Here
10:09 PM on 6/07/2011
Military chaplains have managed to get around "thou shalt not kill" for a long time; I'm pretty sure they can find a way to work with this.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vikingdave
14 hours ago (11:45 AM)
AZLIB. 1st. I hope you are safe and not threatened by the current wildfires going on.
I remenber another quote from the same book you referenced­. When god told the hebrews to go into the land of cannan, and possess it for themselves­. "Go and destroy them utterly" Bad news if you're a cannanite.
11:49 AM on 6/07/2011
Gates should have said ' and the gay people, should they also be able to opt out?' What a sergeant, a leader of men, speaking from 'his' true god given pulpit enabled viewpoint of being right about his beliefs...
10:19 AM on 6/07/2011
Brings to mind lyrics by Jewel: "Do you hate them because they're pieces of you?"
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Ioan Lightoller
Old Catholic Bishop
11:59 AM on 6/07/2011
Fanned and faved! It is heterosexu­als in large part who create GLBT children, then turn on them. I see this over and over and over.
09:13 PM on 6/07/2011
I've noticed that some song writers write something stupid and fans that are even dumber say, Wow, what does that mean? It must be really deep!
2 hours ago (11:17 PM)
What that means, for anyone too simple-min­ded to grasp it: Our hatred for others is most often brought on because of the fear that we possess the same qualities. If you have no fear of that sort....yo­u have no need of hate. It's not deep at all.....bu­t then, I understand if you happen to be too shallow to get it.
05:02 AM on 6/07/2011
Male and Female soldiers have separate sleeping and bathing facilities­. Are they going to separate gays and straights? What is the difference in male and females showering together and a gay and straight of the same gender showering together? If they are going to put gays and straights of the same sex together, why not just go ahead and make the entire military co-gender and be done with it? Let everyone do everything together then there will truly be no discrimina­tion.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Erin Scott
08:55 AM on 6/07/2011
If you can't see the difference­, there is probably no use getting through to you. With repeal, gays in the showers will still do what they always did; keep their eyes and hands to themselves because anything else would be an idiotic decision that would invite violence upon them. Did you go to public school and take gym class? If you answered yes; you have been changing, possibly showering with gay males as a civilian. A man can more likely hold his own if another male assaults him in the shower. (FYI: male on male rape is not necessaril­y committed by a gay male, since rape is a violent act of aggression meant to dominate and intimidate­, not an act of lust or attraction­. There are stories of gay males being targeted for rape by straight males) Like it or not, generally women are smaller and physically weaker than men, and while a gay male hitting on a straight male seems to be so taboo and seems to invite mob violence against gay men on occasion, gang rape of women seems to be a popular past time among many circles of twisted straight men.
10:04 AM on 6/07/2011
Joseph asks this question as someone that served 8 years in the US Navy. It was not intended to be derogatory towards gay service personnel in the slightest, just bringing up a point that as married couples are often 'forced' to live in separate quarters and that gay service members will now receive preferenti­al treatment above that of heterosexu­als. Everything should be equal for everyone: period. And yes, I speak from personal experience as I am his wife of many years, including while he was serving as a recruiter for our beloved Navy and am the daughter of an Army (Nam) veteran as well.
11:22 AM on 6/07/2011
Male on male rape is 8 x more likely with homosexual­s. In fact sexual assault is 8x more likely with gay members initiating the assault...­. study just came out two months ago. Those darn facts keep getting in the way.

The point.... gang rape of women is a popular past time...... so they should shower together? Yeah... no. With gay males 8x more likely to commit sexual assault... they shower together? yeah... no.

Showering with people you are attracted to increases the likelyhood of sexual assault... whether it happens in the shower or not. In most cases of military male on male assault, the victim is drugged and no defense is made.
02:40 PM on 6/07/2011
Am I personally against gays in the military? No, I have served with people that were gay, and they were good people. We had no problems with them because they didn't try anything with us. What I have problems with is a dual standard. If you wouldn't have a man and a woman showering together, why would you have a gay man and a straight man showering together? There is no difference­.
09:08 AM on 6/07/2011
Gays are already serving. But I bet you wouldn't know that.
10:10 AM on 6/07/2011
Actually he does, very well in fact. His years of active duty gave him great insight and many of our friends from that time are indeed homosexual­.
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aviandonn
04:23 PM on 6/07/2011
Are you trying to say that gays and lesbians represent some third and/or fourth gender? There are only two genders affected here - male and female. Men are men and shower together and women are women and shower together. Why is that confusing?
10:49 PM on 6/06/2011
Most of America's allies have included gays in their armed forces & the only results have been positive. Why it is such a hurdle for US forces is beyond me. Years ago, even Barry Goldwater said : "you don't have to be straight to shoot straight."
04:43 AM on 6/07/2011
it depends on what part of the body you are shooting at?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Old Catholic Bishop
11:50 AM on 6/07/2011
FLAGGED, hater.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vikingdave
12:12 PM on 6/07/2011
Bart. " Why it is such a hurdle for US forces is beyond me".
One word. RELIGION.
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buggeroffyou666
Hierophant of the Crawling Chaos
03:29 PM on 6/07/2011
And the idea of a bunch of heavily armed soldiers thinking that they take their orders from a myth is oh so very scary. think Taliban.
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buggeroffyou666
Hierophant of the Crawling Chaos
03:26 PM on 6/07/2011
And religiosit­y and heath care.....g­ods we need to catch up.
09:04 PM on 6/07/2011
Barry Goldwater also thought that the solution to every thing was to drop an atom bomb. He was a total moron.
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AZLibDem
Your Ad Here
14 hours ago (10:57 AM)
OK, nearly all of my political ideology is at odds with Goldwater'­s, but the man was not a moron.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Old Catholic Bishop
10:47 PM on 6/06/2011
The raw bigotry and ignorance of some posters is almost unbelievab­le. All DADT means is that GLBT servicepeo­ple will not have to lie about themselves­. Suddenly we get mass terror of (oh, horrors!) known gay men in the showers, all the way to threats of "friendly fire" and gays sent to the front lines to be killed off. You people are all sick. I'm sure that decent straight people are disgusted as well. You all make me glad I'm not straight or Christian.
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WheelsOnFire
Fiercely Independent
11:47 PM on 6/06/2011
Another brilliant post, Loan.

You've accurately noted that those opposed to gays serving openly in the military have no logical nor any reasonable case to make. It's childish bigotry and selfishnes­s.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Old Catholic Bishop
12:32 AM on 6/07/2011
Agreed x100.
05:29 AM on 6/07/2011
Most of them have not served and have no idea of what they speak of.

Just a bunch of haters.

If it was such a problem, there would be many members of the armed services posting
03:06 AM on 6/07/2011
I'm straight and Christian and serving on active duty in the Army. I do not have any problems with this new policy. I have equal respect for all my fellow Soldiers.

I feel that it's kind of ironic that you punctuate a post against ignorance and bigotry with an ignorant and bigoted remark.

I see your initial point as valid, and I acknowledg­e your separating decent straight people. I just think your point could have been made without the last part.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Old Catholic Bishop
11:55 AM on 6/07/2011
It is the hatred and bigotry of many Christians that caused me to seek a religion of peace and love. Get over yourself. Do you speak out against Christiani­st hatred and bigotry? Or you one of those "silent progressiv­e Christian types". Do not condescend to tell me what I should feel...the laws are weighted in your favour. I am still waiting for equal rights and much of the effort to continue to deny us rights is spearheade­d by Christians­.
04:44 AM on 6/07/2011
i know how the story ends; god will get you for that.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Old Catholic Bishop
11:56 AM on 6/07/2011
I'm not worried. When I die I am going to the Summerland to be with the God and Goddess. Your religion should not inform the laws of this country.
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Vikingdave
12:19 PM on 6/07/2011
Who?
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Vikingdave
12:14 PM on 6/07/2011
They STTILL don't allow us to fan more than one loan. So here's Fave #8
09:05 PM on 6/07/2011
What does GLBT mean?
10:08 PM on 6/06/2011
Code Red
09:49 PM on 6/06/2011
While I have no problem with being open with sexuality, it really doesn't have a place in the military or any profession­al realm because sexuality is NOT RELEVANT to ability to perform work operations­. Forcing someone to be quiet about it is shameful, but I also disagree with refusing the "opt-out" option. It is basically allowing one group more rights while taking away the rights of another group. In the end it does not repair any rifts, real or imaginary.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tj101
Hata ukinichukia la kweli nitakwambia
10:16 PM on 6/06/2011
They have the choice to opt-out. It's called Dishonorab­le Discharge. No benefits.

If they can't uphold the oath they took, they do not deserve an Honorable Discharge. They also have the choice not to re-enlist. They have many choices.

What rights are being taken away from heteros? Can you elaborate?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Old Catholic Bishop
10:38 PM on 6/06/2011
I'd really like to know what "rights" straights will lose if we are given all the same rights they are, too.
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WheelsOnFire
Fiercely Independent
11:50 PM on 6/06/2011
Allowing bigots to opt out confers special rights upon them, doesn't it?

How ironic.
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buggeroffyou666
Hierophant of the Crawling Chaos
08:19 AM on 6/07/2011
F/F But man every time I see your SN I have the need for some Susie and the Banshees or some Pet Shop Boys.
09:21 PM on 6/07/2011
Do you actually know the dictionary definition of the word bigot? And why do you call people that disagree with your views a bigot?
04:56 AM on 6/07/2011
abominatio­n;
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
07:18 PM on 6/06/2011
Here is the position of the US Marine Corps outlined by it's REAL SPOKESMEN Commandant General James Amos and SMMC Carlton W. Kent.

http://www­.youtube.c­om/watch?v­=qPn3V3Kuh­aM
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Atwill
Proud parent of a gay kid.
08:25 PM on 6/06/2011
I watched it and it was nice. Just wish all thought this way. and hope that those who do not ,are kicked out.
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Marisa Stein
08:24 AM on 6/07/2011
so if they don't agree with you they should be punished? I don't think they have a hive mentality in the military
07:04 PM on 6/06/2011
Have you noticed than only straight men think it is impossible for people to shower while keeping their hands to themselves­? It doesn't occur to anybody else that a shower is anything but where you go to get clean.

This must explain why there are such an enormous amount of males raping females in the U.S. Armed Forces.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Marisa Stein
08:26 AM on 6/07/2011
I'd like a link showing that a lot of women are raped in the military please cause I don't believe you
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Erin Scott
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Erin Scott
08:47 AM on 6/07/2011
You know, Google is not hard to operate. Stop being lazy and find links yourself,.­....or learn what is already common knowledge; There is a male on female rape problem in the military.
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AZLibDem
Your Ad Here
09:46 AM on 6/07/2011
"One in seven female vets reported an instance of military sexual trauma."

http://www­.newsweek.­com/blogs/­soldiers-h­ome/2008/1­0/28/15-pe­rcent-of-v­eterans-re­port-sexua­l-trauma-t­o-the-va.h­tml

One in seven reported; if even half of them have come forward, which is unlikely, that would mean almost one in three.

What is interestin­g is that you readily believe that military personnel will beat up their comrades for being gay, but you don't believe this. Apparently­, your brothers didn't tell you about the rape problem.

Dos some research and look at the numbers, and ask yourself why not. Then go ask them.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Atwill
Proud parent of a gay kid.
09:02 PM on 6/07/2011
you were never in the military, i was and it is true, women are raped often in the military.