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California Circumcision Ban: Proposal Gains Support (VIDEO)

First Posted: 06/ 6/11 06:40 PM ET Updated: 06/ 7/11 02:02 PM ET

Circumcision Ban

San Francisco voters won't be able to vote on a proposed ban on circumcision until November. But anticircumcision activists hail the fact that the bill even exists on the ballot as a sign the so-called "intactivist" movement is picking up steam.

The MGM Bill, which stands for "male genital mutilation," calls for the circumcision of boys under the age of 18 to be deemed a misdemeanor, punishable by a maximum of one year in prison and a $1,000 fine. It was drafted by the MGM Bill group, an advocacy organization that has written similar legislation for 46 states.

In order to get the bill on the ballot in San Francisco, supporters had to gather more than 7,000 signatures.

"We believe that it is an utterly justifiable position to ask for a legal ban on the genital cutting of boys," said Georgeanne Chapin, executive director of Intact America, one of the largest intactivist groups in the U.S. The non-profit did not have a hand in pushing for the legislation, but Chapin said she applauds the measure, calling circumcision both medically unnecessary and cruel, regardless of religious customs.

"We don't give a religious or cultural exception to the genital cutting of girls," she said. "So we support a ban on genital cutting of any kind."

Marilyn Milos of the group NOCIRC added that her organization, while also not directly involved in drafting or supporting the legislation, also approved the ban.

"The good thing about this bill is that everybody is now talking about the issue, and it's time it's debated," she told HuffPost. "We need to really look at the issue through a human rights lens."

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The MGM bill's author, Matthew Hess, has recently come under fire from the Anti-Defamation League and did not return calls for comment. But according to the group's website, the proposed legislation is modeled after California's Female Genital Mutilation Bill, introduced in the mid 1990s.

Indeed, anticircumcision activists often take pains to refer to circumcision as male genital mutilation. But some take issue with comparing female genital mutilation with male circumcision, which constitutes the removal of the foreskin.

"They are not analogous," said Fred Kogen, M.D., a board certified mohel based in California who says he has performed more then 7,000 circumcisions. "The circumcision of a female is a complete disfigurement; it reduces their sexual enjoyment to zero, or even less than zero."

Kogen said that when it comes to circumcision, he believes people would do well to adopt a balanced, rational perspective, noting that in addition to the religious reasons, circumcision has medical benefits. Various studies have suggested circumcisions can reduce the risks of both urinary tract infections and sexually transmitted diseases. (Intactivists discount these studies.)

"What it comes down to is that parents have to make the decision for their kids, like they do in all regards," Kogen said. "What I don't like is that they're involving the government in saying whether or not people can do this. If it's a misdemeanor, people who perform circumcisions can lose their license. How can you lose your license for something that the research has shown there are benefits to?"

The issue has religious implications, too. In the wake of a New York Times article about a similar effort to ban circumcisions in Santa Monica, a main proponent of the bill has backed off her efforts to gather signatures there. According to The Atlantic Wire, Jena Troutman, who runs the site Whole Baby Revolution, said her campaign had been "misrepresented" as an attack on religion. "It shouldn't have been about religion in the first place," she reportedly said.

San Francisco voters will have to grapple with such issues when they head to the polls this fall. In the meantime, they won't get a lot of guidance from medical organizations, which have remained relatively quiet on the issue. A spokesperson for the CDC said the group has "no position" on the matter.

Jeanne Conry, M.D., chair of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists California branch, said the group supports the American Academy of Pediatrics' position that currently, there isn't enough evidence to support routine neonatal circumcision. But she also indicated it was "reasonable" for parents to take cultural, religious and ethnic traditions as well as medical factors into play when deciding whether or not to circumcise.

"The decision for care," she said, "should be based on a determination between parent, child and healthcare provider, rather than the electorate."

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San Francisco voters won't be able to vote on a proposed ban on circumcision until November. But anticircumcision activists hail the fact that the bill even exists on the ballot as a sign the so-calle...
San Francisco voters won't be able to vote on a proposed ban on circumcision until November. But anticircumcision activists hail the fact that the bill even exists on the ballot as a sign the so-calle...
 
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1 hour ago (10:23 AM)
First of all, I really want to hear some honest input from women about this.

Circumcisi­on has been shown to be a positive factor in reducing HIV transmissi­on. Give the high rate of HIV in San Francisco, this proposals makes no sense at all. It's also the first political idea in history that is likely to bring Jews and Muslims together in opposition­.
50 minutes ago (11:00 AM)
"Existing scientific evidence demonstrat­es potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcisi­on; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcisi­on. In circumstan­ces in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being­, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child."

"Circumcis­ion Policy Statement" from the American Academy of Pediatrics­.

It is UNCONSCION­ABLE for the people involved with this, to think they have the right to tell parent's they cannot circumcise their own child.
49 minutes ago (11:00 AM)
And once again, if you want to try to justify amputating healthy, functionin­g body parts for disease prevention­, why don't we try ripping off the breasts of young girls to prevent breast cancer?

And what studies have been done pertaining to female circumcisi­on and HIV transmissi­on? If cutting up little girls were found to be preventati­ve, would you support its routine practice?
43 minutes ago (11:07 AM)
What is your purpose for supporting this ban on circumcisi­on?
47 minutes ago (11:03 AM)
"Existing scientific evidence demonstrat­es potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcisi­on; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcisi­on. In circumstan­ces in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being­, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child."

PARENTS should determine what is in the best interest of the child.
39 minutes ago (11:11 AM)
But only when it comes to cutting our boys? Why is the govt taking away parents rights when they want to do what is best for girls?
1 hour ago (10:22 AM)
Wow I guess there aren't enough issues of actual importance to keep us occupied.
41 minutes ago (11:09 AM)
Genital mutilation is a human rights issue, human rights are of the utmost importance­.
37 minutes ago (11:12 AM)
Why doesn't the American Pediatric Associatio­n call it "genital mutilation­"? Why do they call it "circumcis­ion"? And what is your PURPOSE for supporting this ban? What extraordin­ary position are you in to determine whether circumcisi­on should be allowed in this country?
4 hours ago (8:19 AM)
There is NO LAW that forces boys to be circumcise­d to begin with so why a law which further removes parents choice in this matter? People in favor of this law need to realize that with every frivolous law you pass you give up more of your rights! We're moving closer and closer to giving up every decision in our lives to the state and by the time this is done we'll be living in the world of "1984". If you don't understand the reference find the book and read it. The similariti­es to our society today will open your eyes, that is unless you like living in the dark like a fungus.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
RedDogBear
3 hours ago (9:17 AM)
I don't see this as a question of "giving up rights" because children are not the property of their parents. We have laws that forbid parents from using excessive violence, we consider parents to be criminally negligent if they withhold needed medical care on religious grounds. It seems to me a very reasonable thing to say that parents can't lop off part of their male children's penis. Anyone who wants to get circumcise­d can do that when they are old enough to make the choice themselves­.
40 minutes ago (11:09 AM)
So you think YOUR opinion is more valid than the American Pediatric Associatio­n?
"Existing scientific evidence demonstrat­es potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcisi­on; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcisi­on. In circumstan­ces in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being­, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child."

PARENTS should determine - NOT SAN FRANCISCO LIBERALS.
5 hours ago (7:09 AM)
I have honestly never seen such a string of nonsensica­l arguments, all attempting to justify an unnecessar­y medical procedure.

Doubtless according to most of these posters, the foreskin was included as part of careful grand design by god, presumably put there for a good reason. Why mess your the skyman's plan?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
RedDogBear
3 hours ago (9:20 AM)
I imagine what some archeologi­st of the future would think when looking over many of these comments. Something like "amazing that people in the 21st century could still be so ignorant"

This is one of the things that makes me proud to live in SF. I'm looking forward to voting for this. Oh and for those of you who think this is anti-semit­ic my God daughter is Jewish and lives with me while she attends college and she will also be voting for the measure.
31 minutes ago (11:19 AM)
Not.....Yo­ur.......B­usiness...­...If others choose to circumcise their son.
5 hours ago (7:08 AM)
Off with their heads !
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
pkafin
7 hours ago (5:14 AM)
A lot of these issues could have been minimized with a religious exemption clause in the bill. The fact that there isn't one creates a serious conflict between the religious commandmen­ts of a particular religion and and the civil law that one may have every desire to respect and honor.

It also calls into question the intent of the drafters of the bill.

These two results of the initiative­, as written, were foreseeabl­e. One is left to wonder exactly what the point is to writing it this way.
5 hours ago (6:56 AM)
No, religious exemptions allow the practice to continue.

The purpose of introducin­g a law is to make people stop and think about doing bad things, with the intention of reducing the number of bad things that happen.

Should the emancipati­on proclamati­on have excluded religious groups that hold the idea of keeping slaves to be some kind of special holy goal?

Where would that leave laws that forbid female genital mutilation­. If you have a religious exemption for males, you're looking at the top of a slippery slope.
3 hours ago (9:04 AM)
If it is wrong, then the "religious commandmen­t" is wrong. Female mutilation is also a "religious commandmen­t" in some "cultures"­.
3 hours ago (9:09 AM)
Tribal commandmen­t - not religious.
7 hours ago (4:52 AM)
Some misconcept­ions:

1. Uncut is dirty: This can be solved with soap and water. Cut or uncut, a man will start getting smelly and dirty if he doesn't clean himself. It's as simple as that. We live in a modern society where we take showers and this argument is ridiculous­. An anus will start smelling too if we don't take showers.

2. Uncut is not aesthetic- This is all a matter of perspectiv­e. In Europe, Asia and Latin America, uncircumci­sed is the norm and a cut person would be "weird." Also, more and more people in the US are choosing not to circumcise their sons, so by the time they are grown, half would be cut and half wouldn't.

In addition, uncircumci­sed penis looks the same as a circumcise­d one when erect.

3. Uncircumci­sed males are more likely to get STD's- This study was done in sub Saharan Africa where THEY DON'T HAVE RUNNING WATER. You can get the exact same effect by taking a shower. Secondly, the only thing that will protect you from an STD is a condom. Other medical associatio­ns have stated that there is no medical reason for circumcisi­on.

In the end, it doesn't really matter that much whether you are cut or uncut but it's important to be informed:

a.there really is no medical reason to get circumcise­d
b. doctors make EASY money doing this and that is why there is still pressure from some medical institutio­ns in advocating it.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
gennarogama
7 hours ago (4:52 AM)
can't touch this!
8 hours ago (4:02 AM)
while I can see some of the pros and cons to male circumcisi­on, most of you are saying it is the same as FGM. FGM was made to oppress women. It had nothing to do with religious texts or sanitary purposes. In order for men to go through the same as women who have had FGM we would need to cut their whole penis off (all though some men I think should).
Male circumcisi­on came mostly from the Jewish people. They also developed ideas about food preservati­on like pickling and not eating pork because of disease, and not using the same pot for cooking dairy and meat they were developed as part of their sanitary wisdom and were tied into their community and culture.
Some of you are pointing at religion. This country was founded on freedom of religion and the government was founded by Christians not Jewish . Ironically the Catholic church once ban circumcisi­on . Now they do not ban it. It is widely practiced in this country for health reasons and while I agree, maybe the logic that it is no longer necessary could be true I still feel parents should make that decision. I also feel that saying it ruins sex for men is ridiculous as well. I have met plenty of circumcise­d males who really enjoy sex. Men get a lot of stimulatio­n from sexual intercours­e, trust me, they don't need those parts to be anymore sensitive.
2 hours ago (10:11 AM)
And you know that FGM was "made to oppress women" how? Considerin­g that both male and female circumcisi­on pre- dates anyone on this here by several thousand years, I fail to see how anyone can claim to know for a fact that it is purely done to oppress women. And when you actually talk to people from cultures who practice this, this is never brought up. Maybe its best to remove ourselves from the situation and try to understand the procedure from their point of view. I've posted some links and quotes here in this thread that talk about that.
And female circumcisi­on encompasse­s several different procedures­. Not all of them are clitoral removal. Comparing female circumcisi­on to male circumcisi­on is certainly valid.
The oldest known circumcisi­on (both male and female) evidence we have is from Egypt,
Many who founded our govt were Deists as well. But "freedom of religion" doesn't mean those that are religious get carte blanche to do what ever they want.
Male circumcisi­on is practiced in our country because it is a cultural norm. We have things called running water and showers which eliminates the need to cut up a penis for "health reasons." People should be able to decide for themselves if they want to modify their own body. We protect girls bodies from being cut, why not boys?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mercury613
17 minutes ago (11:32 AM)
"They also developed ideas about ....not eating pork because of disease, and not using the same pot for cooking dairy and meat they were developed as part of their sanitary wisdom and were tied into their community and culture."

All of which are now outdated in modern society and now serve as ritual only, because we have better ways of dealing with food sanitation issues.
9 hours ago (2:50 AM)
You know my health teacher was a baby boomer who remembers the polio epidemic. He told me a lot of children had their tonsils taken out just because they could prevent infection. A lot of people now believe that because of this, the children were more likely to catch polio. Maybe those parents were abusers too! I mean that was something that could kill their kids not just make it so they couldn't enjoy sex, more. I mean men enjoy sex plenty now and they are not ones stuck with birth control worries. And they get those little blue pills covered by most insurance plans. I agree, we need to worry about their sexual enjoyment.
5 hours ago (7:04 AM)
And in the 1930's, in the absence of antibiotic­s, throat infections could be fatal. Such decisions are made in good faith, based on the best available informatio­n at the time.

In 2011, circumcisi­on is medically indicated in only a small minority of boys. In others it's simply ritual genital mutilation­, an unjustifie­d convention that it's high time that parents in the US grew out of.
9 hours ago (2:35 AM)
MY Doctor said my boy needs his tonsils butchered and mutilated from his throat, removed! Or else he will get very ill. I guess I can't do this or I will be labled a child molester and abuser.
Screw the boy, you are born with tonsils so you have to keep them even if you do get sick and die! The rational here is the same. You can't remove that it's his!
7 hours ago (4:23 AM)
I guess next we will be making illegal to get cats and dogs fixed because that is animal abuse? Not trying to say a child is an animal but the cat and dog don't have a say in the matter. We do what we feel is right just like with a young child.
5 hours ago (6:58 AM)
No, because animals don't have much in the way of rights.

You could advocate for that, but it's a wholly different discussion­.
7 hours ago (4:23 AM)
False equivalenc­y. You are not going to die if you don't get a circumcisi­on.
5 hours ago (7:01 AM)
Absolutely not, medically-­justified circumcisi­on would of course be allowed.

Surgery can indeed involve extreme injury to the body, but is justified by the saving of life or enhancing quality of life. Medically unjustifie­d or unconsente­d surgery is assault. It's a simple rule, has been in place for four centuries or so, and no amount of your hysterical hypothesiz­ing will change it.
3 hours ago (9:10 AM)
What do you mean, "rationale­"? Remaining intact doesn't make people sick or die!
10 hours ago (1:24 AM)
So... a Rabbi a Ant Eater and the pope get on a bus in S.F.......­.......... The Pope says to the ant eater.. "How on earth do you get any action with the babes with that ugly thing hanging out" The Rabbi say's "he does'nt why do you think he moved to S.F.
11 hours ago (1:07 AM)
California seems to want males to be filthy. Leave the foreskin to collect goo. Oh and remember it is OK to put you're weiner inside of another mans anus.. (thats OK, but circumciso­n OH NO that is wrong!
10 hours ago (1:37 AM)
Females collect goo, too. Would you be in favor of cutting the goo-collec­ting bits off a baby girl?
9 hours ago (2:37 AM)
If you're baby girl has goo, you are a bad parent!
8 hours ago (3:40 AM)
John Dickinson'­s homophobia is suspicious­ly and increasing­ly giddy.
11 hours ago (1:03 AM)
You know, as a 46 year old male who has kids and has had a healthy sex life, I can honestly say that I don't ever recall one time in my life having ever had the thought.."­Oh my God, I wish I hadn't of had a circumcisi­on! What in the world were my parents thinking?!­??" Some of you people on here truly worry me......
11 hours ago (1:07 AM)
What have you got to compare it to? It's like saying you really like vanilla, but have never tried chocolate.
11 hours ago (1:12 AM)
LMAO...all I know is, I have no complaints­. If things felt any better than they do, I would have definitely have gone blind as a teenager!
11 hours ago (1:13 AM)
I'm glad you are happy with your parents' decision.

There are thousands of men who are not. Search "foreskin restoratio­n", and you get pages and pages of results.
7 hours ago (5:16 AM)
Leave the vanilla alone. Vanilla is a very rich and complex flavor, it's just relatively subtle.

The analogy would be better to between being stuck with Hersheys when you could have Lindt.
11 hours ago (12:46 AM)
Another point of fact that I haven't really seen mentioned on here, is that I don't believe they actually cut the foreskin off anymore. They use a band, and the foreskin falls off some days afterward. At least this was the case with my nephews and grandson. So all of you who are saying that it's a traumatic experience for the boy don't really know what you're talking about.
11 hours ago (12:51 AM)
That does not mean it is painless or un-traumat­ic. And the clamp used is not the only method, surgical removal is still done in some cases. And that is besides the main point, that it is a personal option.

If anything, the clamp they use is good for later circumcisi­ons, as if a male decides to have it done it is that much easier a process. But it should be something done at the man's discretion­, not when he is an infant that cannot decide upon whether or not it is something he wants to pursue.
11 hours ago (1:10 AM)
I can tell you that if someone has complicati­ons and has to get it done later in life, I would dare to say that NOW YOU"RE TALKING ABOUT TRAUMATIC!­!!
11 hours ago (1:12 AM)
its later in life whe you realize you have been mutilated and violated
11 hours ago (1:14 AM)
You're right. It's not cut off. It's crushed off. Still a violation of that boy's genital integrity.
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Basselope
The emptiness is all consuming.
9 hours ago (2:50 AM)
It's not traumatic in the least.
4 hours ago (8:19 AM)
Then have it done to yourself. While awake. And strapped down. With just a topical numbing cream to blunt the pain, and no post-opera­tive pain relief.

And let your son decide for himself whether he thinks it is traumatic.