Joel Klein on News Corp., School Reform and the Pie Incident

Party hard?
I dance, drink, enjoy myself, absolutely. That was a fun evening. I met my wife, Nicole Seligman, that night.

For years, you were Mayor Bloomberg’s chancellor of schools. You were co-chairman recently of a committee that came to a scary-sounding conclusion — that the state of American public education constitutes “a very grave national security threat.”
I do think it has some obvious national security implications, like people not being available with skills that the intelligence community needs. But there is a larger issue. Bill Clinton used to say, Work hard and play by the rules and you can get ahead in America. Right now people believe the game is rigged. The Tea Party and Occupy don’t agree on much, but they agree on that.

As a product of public schools, you would seem a walking advertisement for the system. So why are you so convinced public schools need reform?
I got a terrific education in Astoria. Back then, my teachers never seemed to say to me, “Because you live in public housing, we shouldn’t expect great things from you.” But the more people believe that education won’t make their kids’ lives better, the more we’re going to undermine the American experience.

As Bill Clinton’s assistant attorney general, you sought to break Microsoft into two parts in a very contentious fight. So how did you get Bill Gates to contribute millions to your public-school reform efforts in New York?
He gave us $51 million at an event we had up at Morris High School in the Bronx. He couldn’t have been nicer. Afterward, the principal tugs on my sleeve and says: “Fifty-one million dollars! Think what Gates would have given you if you hadn’t sued him!” Five years later, I’m invited to a Gates Foundation cocktail party at Bill’s house. The guy who answers the door looks behind me and says, “You mean you didn’t bring a taster?”

Rupert Murdoch pays you a reported $4.5 million a year to lead News Corp.’s education technology division. But since this News of the World phone-hacking scandal broke, you’ve been dubbed his consigliere, which conjures the image of a racehorse’s head deposited in a bed.
I tell him exactly what I think. On occasion I have to deliver bad news. I never saw myself as just simply a lawyer. In the White House, the Justice Department, with the mayor, I saw myself as somebody who’s comfortable speaking truth to power.

What do you make of the tweets Murdoch has sent lately, like “Seems every competitor and enemy piling on with lies and libels. So bad, easy to hit back hard”?
Look, Rupert’s the C.E.O. He wanted to tweet. I’m not going to second-guess him.

Bloomberg Businessweek reported that early in the hacking scandal, you broke with some in Murdoch’s inner circle who were pushing for an immediate independent investigation. You suggested that Rebekah Brooks handle it. In retrospect, this seems like colossally bad advice.
It’s just not an accurate account.

Many people have remarked that when Wendi Murdoch jumped up and slugged the guy trying to throw a pie at her husband during his Parliament testimony, you didn’t move a muscle.
I can’t answer this without sounding defensive. I didn’t see him until Wendi was up and in the middle of it. At that point there was a whole gaggle of people and so I thought, Am I going to jump up and get in the middle of this thing if it’s over?

People can’t seem to believe that you, a lifelong Democrat, work for Murdoch. Do you get a hard time from your friends?
People give me a hard time. When Rupert gave me the opportunity, I was excited to do it. I don’t always agree with him, and I’m sure he disagrees with a lot of my thoughts.