The Frankfurt shootings

@pollock
from sweden to swizerland the media is never publishing the nationality or bethnical background of the offenders. with the internet the public is aware of the facts and this unfortunatly results in, what TE calls, xenophobic parties getting elected by those who are potntial viactims of multiculturalism- the 40% of the indigenous population who are, by lack of funds, forced to live with the immigrants with a high proclinity to crime....

There are rather very well validated studies about the american situation with the migration of wealthier citizens out of suburbs with racial integration, while less well of whites were trapped.

Unfortunately political elites NEVER consider thr effect of their politics upon their subjects- voters.

In germany the polish speaking prussians who came to the ruhr took 4 generations untill integration. But they had satelite tv and no internet- now adays the eastern europeans seem to integrate quite well, while the southern/muslimimmigratns seem to be less well integrated after 2 generations than their parents.
as allways their is no black and white situation,

It is a well known fact that fake videos of western soliders committing atrocities are rampant in Al Qaeda and Islamic terrorist websites. That is their most effective recruiting tools.

Why is the German media keeping this hidden from its public?
Probably intentionally in order to mislead the German public.

I bet when fake videos of German soliders raping Afghan women are used to recruit terrorists than the German media will have front page blaring headlines that they are fake videos, but for now better keep quiet and mislead the German public that Americans are raping Afghan women.

Jan Urban

I wouldnt kid yourself. I lived in germany. There are some real fat people in Germany. German kids are fat. German diet is fat and not too many do sport. So sad Germans are like the victms of terrorists and also die because they are fat. Germany is land of the misfit toys. Gross und dick

@Jan Urban:

" why german soldiers seem to be able to behave themselves and are popular among the native citizens in the areas they are operating."

Germans popular with the natives? Is this the propaganda the German media tells its public.LOL

"The US has way more maniacs. Killings everyday. Just to name the gifford's attack lately."

Of course there are no crazed maniacs who go on killing sprees in Germany. Prehaps those German kids who go on killing sprees in German schools are only imaginery?

"integration is not easy, nowhere. Just have a look at the latin population. I had to speak spanish in miami."

So what?
In the 19th Century, parts of New York were Italian or Yiddish speaking.

Thats the pattern of immigration in the USA. The first generation stays in the ethnic enclaves, by the 2nd or 3rd generation they become middle-class and move out of the ethnic enclaves.
Don't see any Italian or Yiddish speaking sections in New York today do you?

So you came into contact with first generation Hispanics and projected the German experience with Turkish immigrants onto Miami.
The difference is in Germany, the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th generation Turkish immigrants are still living in the ethnic enclaves with poor language skills. Never find that with 2nd or 3rd generation Hispanic immigrants in USA.

There are pockets of spanish-speaking towns in Miami like you described but that is not the norm. The vast majority of Hispanics speak English as the native tongue. Nor do they have any contempt for a liberal western democracies.

@not on your nelly
All the things u described, germany has done years ago, except the burka ban because this is no problem so far in germany. Most of the burkas worn are from rich saudi tourists visiting germany and spending lots of money

@sherryblack
Of course, these german villages lose revenues when american soldiers leave. But overall this hasnt proved to be true in most areas. There was found replacement and overall the german industry is more than happy that they left because they were spying on us for decades trying to weaken the german economy. Just be more creative, USA!

@sherryblack
I am so glad you always write comments about things you dont know anything about.
Uka is not german nor does he have german citizenship. He is serbian-montenegrian. Moreover, he is not part of a terrorist group. He is a single terrorist.
Guess why he did this? Because he had seen american soldiers raping afghan women on the internet. That is an explanation why he killed american soldiers and not german soldiers. Somehow i am wondering, why german soldiers seem to be able to behave themselves and are popular among the native citizens in the areas they are operating.
Point 2: who told the us to attack iraq? I guess the us is responsible for all that all alone. And i remember all the bad things happening in abu ghreib as well.
Point 3: instead of fingerpointing on germany, take a look in the mirror, us! Compare the crime rates in both countries. And the numbers of jail inmates. The US has way more maniacs. Killings everyday. Just to name the gifford's attack lately. And you trained muslim attackers how to fly planes. How crazy is that? If your secret service was that great, why didnt u find out earlier.
Point 4: integration is not easy, nowhere. Just have a look at the latin population. I had to speak spanish in miami because people were not able to speak english for instance at a gas station. How crazy is that. This never happened to me anywhere in germany, not even in so-called 'little-istanbul', a district in berlin. But integration is improving in germany. Obligatory language classes, early integration of kindergarden kids and better integration of young foreigners in the job market show improvement. It is still not perfect yet, but better than many think.
Point 5: 2 killed american soldiers is really sad. It makes me very sad when i saw their pictures on tv. But how many people die every year in the us just because they are too fat?
Point 6: @sherryblack: tell me or all the other super smart commentators what they would have been done to prevent this from happening? Uka is a single terrorist, shortly islamized, popular among in his neighborhood, visibly inconspicious? Give us your ideas PLEASE

filipzyk wrote:
Mar 6th 2011 3:24 GMT

@Germanborn Turk

I agree the Jews integrated into German society. I did not say otherwise. btw, I'm an American.
..........
sorry freind, I am not sure I can agree with you.
Yes, some of them behave like Europeans , and some of them dress like Europeans, BUT I still find a lot orthodox Jews who dress and behave very differently.
........
And there fewer still who intermarry with non-jews.

I don't think that makes for integration. But IT does not take away their awesome contribution to society at large.

......
German Born Turk -

the problem goes beyond integration... it goes to the very possibility of integration.

With the Koran in your hands , whish Imam would allow you to maary an infidel without converting them ?

and with the same Koran, which Imam would allow you not to kill someone who insulted the Prophet ?

ANd is there ever any possibility that in your culture , women will be equal to men ?
And when will your culture allow to be more peaceful ? You people seem to resort to violence at the drop of a feather, or hat , or burkha - whatever.

Anything else would be unacceptable to the west.

You should not feel guilty for the mistakes your ancester done in the past, If you are a completly different person as you ancesters und make sure that the same mistakes happen never again.

Immagine Turks invade germany, procalaim germans to inferior human being, kill them,rob them, inslave them und make them to a minority in their county.

That happened to native americans and Blacks in the US. You as white ameican are entitled to proclaim your self free from gilt. If you judge human beings by their deeds not by color of skin, religion and background.

@Germanborn Turk

I you believe people should have guilt for the sins of their fathers/grandfathers, then you should feel guilty that your parents or grandparents did not return to Turkey like they were supposed to after being guest workers. Not returning would have been fine if those who stayed wanted to become Germans, but no, they wish to remain Turks. If you and others wish to remain Turks, you should return to Turkey. To make matters worse, Erdogan, in a speech to German-Turkish immigrants encouraged them to learn Turkish first, German second. His speech was like throwing gasoline (petrol) onto a fire.

@Germanborn Turk

If you believe present day Germans should have a guilt complex over the holocaust, then so should you as a German citizen. Personally, I don't think present day Germans or those whose families immigrated after WWII should. But my point is, integrated immigrants should consider themselves to be German, taking all the good with the bad. Thats the way it is here in the US. Christianity teaches that each person is responsible for their own behavior. The sins of the fathers are not held against them. Likewise, you will not be saved by the faith of your fathers. That's why I have no sense of guilt for slavery even though I'm a white American. I do believe it was wrong though. Most Americans don't want to be hyphenated Americans, e.g. Irish-American, Italian-American, and so on. They just want to be Americans. I notice Europe is more tribal though and you have a valid point about that. It is NOT limited to Germany though. I see that throughout Europe.

@Germanborn Turk

I agree the Jews integrated into German society. I did not say otherwise. btw, I'm an American.

You are wrong about muslim integration though. With many exceptions, the most do not integrate in Britain, France, or Germany. However, other minorities do integrate very well. Non-muslim Indians, Vietnamese, Eastern Europeans, etc, etc.

Immigrants have integrated well into our society in the US as well. Lately however, there have been some notable exceptions. Many hispanics still speak spanish as their first language even after three generations in this country. Not good. This handicaps them greatly. I agree with Merkel, Sarkozy, and Cameron that multiculturalism is not good. Integration/assimilation is good.

flipzyk

you claim
It appears to me that muslims do not integrate anywhere in Europe.

your grandfathers were saying the same story about the jews 70 years ago. Jews did integrate into europeans societies, they changed their names, behaved like other citizens. All this didn,t stopped your congenials to start progoms against them.

prick a needle into your own skine befor you prick a nail into others. Integration is not a one way street.

Radicals in evey Relegion pervert the religion for their sick brain.
Moderate Islam is welcome. A reign of Islam will never exist,than millions of moderate moslims like myself will try everything to stop this sick target.

the author writes:
The attack may also bolster concerns in Germany that the country is failing to integrate its immigrants. Last October Angela Merkel, the chancellor, said that multiculturalism had "utterly failed" in Germany.

Germany fail to integrate it,s molems citizen and orther minorities into society.

Thilo,s sarrazins book, a manuskript for mordern racism is a bestseller in this country. Mr. sarrazin was baned to introduce his "Mein Kampf" in UK. Which shows the enormous differenz between these 2 European countries concerning integration policy.

The fact is that Islam is here to stay, and talk about getting rid of illegal immigrants is stupidity at it's highest point.

The first thing that the teutons need to do , is to revert back to type, gather all these islamic people together , and send them off tpo Dachau .

Just joking !

Alternatively , bring these people into modern civilisation, ban the Burkha, Make sure the Imams and Mullahs ( or is it Muller?) are educated to a tertiary level , and that they accept marriages outside their own without conversion to Islam.

Apply strict anti-discrimination laws against them, when they discriminate against women. Introduce an anti-honour killing law against them, and find a way of making their children very independent, through cheap state housing, and income support.
Make sure that parents who stop them being educated to higher levels get penalised.

The gist of all this is that the teutons should stop burring their heads in the snow. Learn from others.

It appears to me that muslims do not integrate anywhere in Europe. France and Britain seem especially troubled with muslim riots. Britain and Spain have had their share of home grown terrorists. Of course America has had its home grown muslim and non-muslim terrorists as well. We don't have a significant percent of muslims though, so riots and large un-assimilated muslim neighborhoods are rare. Maybe some in Detroit. Its kind of goofy for some of the commenters to say Germany has a unique problem here. Of course two of the commenters seem to be consumed with hatred for Germans. I notice they along with a few others jump on any article that has anything to do with Germany and spew their hatred and propaganda. Not that Germany doesn't have problems. All countries do.

@Tomas Marny

When the USA reduced its troops and closed some bases in Germany, the mayors of those towns were in Washington begging the USA not to close those bases because they were a source of jobs and revenue for the local populations.

All those GI's have to spend their money in Germany and that is a lot of revenue.

@sherryblack

Well, I could have said “anti-Western” but in this case it was the US target that’s why I used the narrower term. But nevertheless, USA is still considered to be the (still very active) leader of the Western civilization that is in the eyes of other civilizations spoilt and deserves destruction. That’s why American objects will continue to be the primary targets. At least as long as the US has military presence in Europe, EU countries can still “hide” behind this fact and claim they cannot do anything against US will ;-)

But the point of my previous post was something completely different: the fact that it is not fair to blame countries for behaviour of their citizens from minorities because the state administrations are in rather catch-22 situation as they are required to preserve and cultivate their differences.

@Schadefreude

I’m not a German but as far as I know, there is no bad attitude towards US among native German population – on the contrary, as Germans are the most numerous European nation, they need Americans (who are not a nation but present themselves so) if they want to make comparisons to someone “bigger” within the same civilization sphere. The only frustration is from continual US military presence that is not considered needed anymore (army of the competing block from the eastern part was withdrawn 20 years ago) but it would not be a sufficient motivation to commit terrorist attacks (unless American kids throw stones from highway viaducts ;-)

The problem that you have described is relevant primarily for former colonial countries that due to their “special relations” with their former colonies allowed many people from those territories in and have allowed them to preserve their original mentalities. I’m quite familiar with situation in the UK. Although I fully respect these special relations and their benefits, the truth is that current situation is that the last remnants of original Englishness are preserved in the countryside but the bigger towns remind rather of Mumbai or Lagos and British press keeps on whining that the infrastructure and public services are absolutely unprepared and have no place to grow….

Germany is in a different situation as the territory was originally a set of counties that didn’t have any colonial ambitions (besides Namibia). Except the numerous Turkey communities whose parents had actively participated in building the West German economy and should become somehow settled, they do not need new masses of immigrants. The main reasons are: 1) It’s always better to solve problems with abandoned houses and redundant infrastructure that the opposite. 2) People in Germany (and Central Europe in general) are still used to work on their own and do not need replacements to do it on their behalf. 3) Technological advancements will allow offloading even more of the human labour (including some services) to machines before the aging population problems fully emerge...

However, you’re right that there are many external issues (like current situation in North Africa) and EU countries will have to find some ways to satisfy demands of the non-EU population and at the same time not to destroy traditional cultures of European countries. The strategy that EU has been currently following is to build infrastructure and suitable conditions for living directly in the target regions (Afghanistan, Palestine and now the “Marshall plan” for the North Africa is considered).

derechteversus -

That was France not the US, and France wasn't part of NATO for most of the Cold War. The US sure as hell didn't station hundreds of thousands of soldiers in Germany just so that the French could nuke them.

You need to work on seeing things from the other's point of view.

Tomas Marny

I wouldnt be so sharp with the tongue. You need to realize the very poor demographics in your country. You will DEFINATELy have terrorist attacks within Germany against Germans soon. If you want to do the German thing, and not claim responsibility and keepo telling yourself its an American problem, you will be sorry. You are now a target. Radicalization against Americans in Germany are also attributable to your media's anti American rhetoric and your citizens hate for Americans. You are engaged now but your slacker past will never allow a German to denounce radicalizationn for they know they will be a hostage in their own native land. And thats what is happening. Germans are no longer free in Germany. They must soon accept Sharia law and the fact that Germans are a dying breed. No cloning will replace them. Berlin has even said that by 2030 Germany will be predominatly an Islamic State. Schade

@Tomas Marny

If you think muslim immigrants are only anti-American, than you are living in a delusional world.

Madrid, London were targets too or have you forgotten?

France had Islamic terrorists attacks long before 9/11.