In Turkey the right to free speech is being lost

Surprise surprise. An Islamist government cracks down on free speech. Who would have thought.

What a surprise...tell us more...next Britain...censorship is freedom...Orwell

its shame because turkey is an asian country with european narrative and how it came together in pride of its secular governing and it is to be suggested that every middle eastern country should follow its path toward a stable democracy

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.

No surprise. This is the same man who disrupted a NATO summit by threatening to veto the appointment of Anders Fogh Rasmussen, the prime minister of Denmark, as its new secretary-general, for not shutting down down the press for printing cartoons. (You know the ones). Pretty much tells us everything we need to know about his conceptions of freedom.

Oh almost forgot. He was also pissed that the Danish government refused to shut down Kurdish language broadcasters.

I have not heard much about Turkey joining the EU lately. That's good news.

The loss of free speech in Turkey is not only unsurprising it is inevitable. Islam and free speech don't mix. More Islam, less freedom.

modern, secular, western-oriented Turkey, with its democratically elected government, has locked away more members of the press than China and Iran combined.

Not necessarily.
In both China and Iran the tulers are above such bourgeois/kuffar concepts as rule of law. Bad as Turkey's record is, it acts within the law; albeit within bad laws. That's aside from the question of how China and Iran define journalists. In both countries people are locked up for illegally practising journalism.

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.

I don't know about Turkey but we seem to be losing freedom of speech in this country.

At least their media isn't secretly controlled as it is in countries such as UK and US..

What, prof, youmean rupert Murdoch doesn't control News International or Lorf Rothermere the Daily Mail and General Trust?

Sir......................why should Turkey join a failed Franco-German Euro project?

Have you been asleep - Turkey has rightly turned its back on Europe and turned to the Middle East. Since then it has prospered and gained huge repsect.

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.

I never thought they had 'freedom of speech'.
Even the letters 'Q', 'W', & 'X' are illegal. Your first paragraph alone contains seven forbidden Ws.

http://www.theworld.org/2009/11/illegal-letters-in-turkey/

Erdogan is using a series of alleged plots to justify a crackdown on dissent that threatens basic freedoms

Sounds a whole lot like New Labour to me.

Sir................no such thing as free speech.

Groups in control dictate the terms of what can be classed as free speech. If it is not favourable then it is censored.

Like this CIF that has been removing my posts for the last 2 weeks. Who's putitng pressure on you?

Have you been asleep - Turkey has rightly turned its back on Europe and turned to the Middle East. Since then it has prospered and gained huge repsect.

Actually I gather that large parts of the Middle East aren't too happy about that, accusing Turkey of practicing a breed of cultural imperialism similar to that practiced by the United States in Europe.

Sir..........can we not crititise anything or anyone except Muslims?

Like this CIF that has been removing my posts for the last 2 weeks. Who's putitng pressure on you?

What broad topics were your posts about? (only need the subject heading).

Sir...................have you noticed the rapid and high "recommends" given to all anti musim replies.

Looks like an orchestrated group at work. I wonder who they could be?

Sir...................have you noticed the rapid and high "recommends" given to all anti musim replies.

Looks like an orchestrated group at work. I wonder who they could be?

A cross section of British society.

Those of us who have long argued that elected Islamist parties should not be denied the opportunity to govern invested great hope in Erdogan and the AKP.

And now, just as hardline communists first defended Stalin's crimes, and then resorted to the "well, he's not a real communist" defence, you're going to have to explain why it is that the first thing Islamist parties to is suppress anyone who disagrees with them.

Fortunately, this sort of stuff means that there is no chance whatsoever of Turkey ever joining the EU. Which is fine, but we can expect all sorts of "oh, you're all racist" whining from the usual suspects.

Turkey has rightly turned its back on Europe and turned to the Middle East.

Turkey has rightly turned its back on Europe and turned to the Middle Ages.

In Turkey the right to free speech is being lost

So that's why Turkey has been given to play a key role in Syria's civil conflict - to ensure no free speech is given to Syrians after the US, Turkey and Saudis force a regime change in Syria.

I bet Erdogan wants a less secular state than he admits in public. He has a certain rhetorical style when he speaks about Turkeys role in the world that in my understanding doesn't promote secular European values. I think there is a difference in his value system and what Europe thinks an open society should look like. This isn't bad for itself if the Turkish people want it. But it drives Turkey away from the EU.
I hope Turkey progresses and comes finally closer to Europe. Mostly for sentimental reasons, since my first teenage girlfriend was Turkish. So I probably have a better view on Turkey then most Germans.

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.

Turkey has been going to the dogs for years

Haven't you noticed most people are suspicious of all organised religion, labels and institutions...check out the anti catholic comments on here...

It seems that everywhere in the World Human Rights are under attack.

It's a good job here in the UK we have a Home Secretary who is willing to protect Human Rights at all costs.

Unless they're invoked by foreigners of course!

Good article.

And I don't think I've ever said that about a Mehdi Hasan piece before now.

Havn't you ever noticed gang metality, the herd stands up for the herd...no different in any part of the world unless you get control...possibility.

How far is Erdogan's behaviour inspired by islamism and how far by Turkish society and traditions? The laws he uses existed before he came to power and were used by avowedly secularist Turkish parties. He may be an islamist, but he is also a Turkish nationalist.

So all Syrians have free speech at present? Your name isn't Putin by any chance?

I find the entire article a bit like I find many of the essays I have marked for 1st year uni students... superficial correct yet fundamentally lacking in any real analysis which can lead to appropriate conclusions.

Firstly, lets assume that there is a trend towards an erosion of free speech (for which there is lots of evidence to the contrary...the picture is much more complex). The article attributes this to an 'islamist' government. The same islamist government that has increased freedom in other areas. Clearly its much more complicated than islamist = inevitable erosion of freedom.

The article to be truly convincing would have done something like the following:

1) Identify the aspects that would support an erosion of freedom of speech
2) Identify facts to the contrary (which are numerous)
3) come to a reasoned synthesis regarding the apparent contradiction about the above
4) Analyse a similar trend of curtailment of freedom of speech in other countries - e.g USA, UK - note that this seems to be a worldwide trend, irrespective of the presence of an 'islamist' government
5) Set out reasons that may explain this worldwide phenomenon
6) Analyse why the conditions in Turkey are uniqueregarding this alleged restriction of freedom of speech cf the global trend and uniquely tied to the AKP government

None of this was done. Instead we just get trash. I only assume that this is because they couldnt formulate an argument that refutes many of the inevitable contradictions that are present (because he doesnt have one) or he didnt even have the intellect to formulate a more comprehensive argument. Neither of which engenders confidence that he knows what he is talking about. As it is, the article is utterly unconvincing in trying to tie specific erosions of freedom to a specific AKP ideology versus a more insidious worldwide trend.

Im a bloody scientist/doctor and can formulate a much more convincing structure for the article in a few seconds than this journalist.

Better articles next time please..

How far is Erdogan's behaviour inspired by islamism and how far by Turkish society and traditions? The laws he uses existed before he came to power and were used by avowedly secularist Turkish parties. He may be an islamist, but he is also a Turkish nationalist.

Good point. I don't see Erdogan's actions to date as a manifestation of islamofascism

Erdogan is using a series of alleged plots to justify a crackdown on dissent

Alleged plots that apparently include Zionist spies of the feathered variety. A news report from Ynet news ...

Turkish authorities believe that they have found a bird used for espionage purposes by Israel, the country's media reported.

According to a Tuesday report in Yedioth Ahronoth, an investigation to that effect was launched in Ankara several days ago, after a farmer discovered a dead Merops Apiaster, commonly known as the European Bee-Eater, in his field. The bird had a ring reading "Israel" on one of its legs.

Bird-banding is a common practice in ornithology, meant to help scientists track bird migration routes.

The band, however, was not the most damning piece of evidence against the bee-eater: Its nostrils were.

The bird-beak in question reportedly sported "unusually large nostrils," which -- combined with the identification ring -- raised suspicions that the bird was "implanted with a surveillance device" and that it arrived in Turkey as part of an espionage mission.

The bird's remains were originally handed over to the Turkish Agriculture Ministry, which then turned in over to Ankara's security services.....

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4229295,00.html

Do you support free speech?

Sir........case in example. Eques writes a meaningless question and gets 4 recommends. Come on CIF whats going on?

More on the Turkish pianist charged with insulting Islam. From Associated Press, June 1st ...

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) -- A Turkish court on Friday formally charged an internationally known pianist and composer with insulting Islamic religious values in comments he made on Twitter.

The court in Istanbul voted to approve an indictment against Fazil Say, who has played piano with the New York Philharmonic, Berlin Symphony Orchestra, Israel Philharmonic, National Orchestra of France and Tokyo Symphony.

The 42-year-old Turk faces charges of inciting hatred and public enmity, and insulting "religious values." Say, who has served as a culture ambassador for the European Union, allegedly mocked Islamic beliefs about paradise in April.

Meltem Akyol, a lawyer for Say, said the pianist has denied the charges. The trial will be held on Oct. 18, she said.

"We certainly do not accept the charges," Akyol said by telephone on Friday. "He has stated in his initial testimony during the probe that he had no intention to humiliate any religion. He was basically criticizing those who are exploiting religion for profit."

Akyol said Say's tweets and retweets on social media cannot be considered as public remarks because only people who follow him can see them. In one tweet cited in the indictment, Say said: "What if there is raki (traditional anisette drink) in paradise but not in hell, while there is Chivas Regal (scotch) in hell and not in paradise? What will happen then?"

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iAm4pAzx5JmqBCD6ddm6BWD3SgRQ?docId=034f08956d5e4d27940667aaa83b51ce

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.

Sir....................peteNW1 post is a case of 1+1 = 3 but its alright for peteNW1 to make light of these security concerns cos its Turkey a Muslim country .

If a Muslim made such a remark eveytime the US government cracked down on civil liberties and free speech in reply to some alleged plot then they would either be in guantanamo or in some mental asylum. The media would brandish them as an enemy within and to live with the crackdowns.

Come on, Prof: do you really believe there is any likelihood that Israel is sending out bee-eaters "implanted with a surveillance device" to Turkey as part of an espionage mission? PeterNW1 was commenting on the paranoia and gullibility of some people.
Mind you, there's a lot of it about:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12120259

johnmrson

10 June 2012 5:18PM

Surprise surprise. An Islamist government cracks down on free speech. Who would have thought.

Not quite what the Guardian writers had expected. An American government, an Israeli government - yes, but not an Islamist government.

What will the chattering classes from Islington to Clapham make of this, will it cause a pause as they sip their Chianti in the villas in Tuscany, probably not.

Has 'Kemalism' - the pro-western policy of Kemal Ataturk - come to an end in Turkey? Soner Cagaptay, writing for CNN, argues that it has ...

Has Turkey's twentieth century experience with Kemalism - a Europe-oriented top-down Westernization model - come to an end?

To a large extent: Yes.

Symbolically speaking, nothing could portend the coming end of Kemalism better than the recent public exoneration of Iskilipli Atif Hoca, a rare resistance figure to Kemalism in the early twentieth century. ...

In November 1925, Ataturk carried out perhaps the most symbolic of his reforms, banning all Turkish males from wearing the Ottoman fez in order to cement his country's commitment to European ideals. Ataturk wanted to make Turks European head to toe and the abolition of the fez embodied this effort.

Most Turks acquiesced to Ataturk's reforms, not just to the "hat reform" but also to deeper ones such as the "alphabet reform," which changed the Turks' script from an Arab alphabet-based one to its current Latin-based form, further connecting the Turks to European culture.

Ataturk was able to achieve these reforms with minor resistance thanks to the weight of his persona. After all, Ataturk - who had just liberated Turkey from a massive Allied occupation - was considered nothing short of a father to all Turks.

Some Turks, however, objected to his reforms.

Enter Atif Hoca, a cleric in the small central Anatolian town of Iskilip, who refused to adhere to Ataturk's "hat reform." Atif Hoca defended his use of the fez, couching his objections in Islam. He rallied to protest against the reforms and began publishing essays in local papers. He was executed in February 1926, becoming a rare icon of resistance to Kemalism.

Recently though, Atif Hoca's legacy has been reversed in the public eye. In February 2012, the government decided to name a public hospital in Iskilip - Atif Hoca's hometown - after him. This dedication carries remarkable symbolic significance, as it is tantamount to honoring one of the best known anti-Kemalists to date, as well as signaling Turkey's move to a post-Kemalist era.

The rest of the article is here ...

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/02/kemalism-is-dead-but-not-ataturk/

Eques

10 June 2012 6:03PM

Erdogan is using a series of alleged plots to justify a crackdown on dissent that threatens basic freedoms

Sounds a whole lot like New Labour to me.
</blockquote

Surely you can't think that Broon actually cracked down on basic freedoms, those arrested for photgraphing public buildings were obviously involved on dissent , those objecting to vast databases on all people in the UK didn't realise the potential for the police to control dissent . The vast increase in CCTV cameras meant that citizens could walk the streets knowing that 'Big Brother' was looking after them as well as looking at them.

There are problems with press freedom in Turkey - and it is right to be concerned about them.

However, the Turkish press is vastly more free than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

Take the following by Cengiz Aktar from Today's Zaman (April 25, 2012), a paper loosely affiliated to the Gulen Islamic movement, itself very loosely linked to the ruling AK Party:

Tuesday was another April 24. That was the 97th anniversary of the day when in 1915 the Young Turk government took the decision to collectively deport Armenians to Syrian deserts, which ended up in the annihilation of Armenian and Assyrian existence in these lands. Regardless of what you call it, what happened to Armenians and Assyrians has taken our soul and brain hostage since then. Their annihilation became the very source that keeps promoting our widespread denial. This source is probably the primary reason for the widespread schizophrenia that is repeated on a daily basis at home, at work or on the street. We deny by all means what each and everyone either knows or guesses. There is a chilling statement that has been coined recently: “In this land, Kurds try to prove that they exist; Armenians try to prove that they are dead":
http://www.todayszaman.com/columnist-278588-after-denial.html

20 years ago this would have got Cengiz Aktar a lengthy prison sentence. Today's views like this are the subject of serious debate in Turkey.

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.

"Democracy is like a train. We shall get out when we arrive at the station we want."

- the mildly Islamist Erdogan

Anyone with a working brain cell?

Pasha Erdogan has a thin skin.

Heaven forbid, the treasonous cultural elites dare to offend his darling child. Or, heavons to Betsy, allowing a filthy foreign writer to offend the dignity of the Turkish nation.

The peasants in the countryside might get the wrong ideas. We can't have them forget that Erdogan is their sainted defender from the atheistic and vulgar hordes of city dwellers in Istanbul.

Oops, Kurdish peasant need not apply.

Heymat, pissed at wannabe, Tinpot despots.

Walacz. 10 June 2012 5:55PM. I never thought they had 'freedom of speech'. Even the letters 'Q', 'W', & 'X' are illegal.

This is untrue.

In recent years, there has been a massive expansion of writing in Kurdish - which contains the letters 'q', 'w', and 'x'. Writing in Kurdish has been legal in Turkish since at least 1978, when I bought some Kurdish books in Turkey (with the court decisions authorising their publication conveniently placed at the back of the books).

Turkey's Kurds have had a hard time getting their language accepted, but there is now an active Kurdish language press, as well as Kurdish radio and television.

The Turkish ultra-nationalist National Action Party (MHP), not to be outdone, recently launched its own Kurdish language newspaper!

http://www.sabah.com.tr/Gundem/2012/06/01/mhpden-kurtce-bir-gazeteye-ilk-roportaj