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Are guns more effective than pepper spray in an Alaska bear attack?Another bunch of Outsiders suffer a mauling in Alaska. I’m not just referring to the grizzly bear attacking seven teens in late July. I’m talking about the drubbing dished out by Alaskans who believe a gun is the best -- some would say only -- insurance against a bear attack. A flurry of swats and biting comments were delivered in response to articles in the Anchorage Daily News. Within days the first article racked up 945 often acidic jabs. Several follow-up articles provoked another 569 shots. Most of the authors used pseudonyms, but many comments appeared to be written by Alaskans. What provoked the electronic attack? Seven teens ranging from 16-18 years old were in their fourth week of a wilderness backpacking course sponsored by the National Outdoor Leadership School. NOLS is a highly respected organization that teaches leadership, teamwork, environmental ethics, first aid, and wilderness skills, including bear safety. The group was on the first day of a "student expedition," which caps the month-long course by permitting the teens to demonstrate what they had learned, without adult supervision. Surprised by a brown bear in the western Talkeetna Mountains, four of the teens sustained injuries. Three members of the group carried a can of bear spray, which none had time to deploy. The teens were not allowed to carry firearms. Many responses to the newspaper articles either supported or contested the notion that the teens should have carried firearms. Those advocating carrying guns for bear protection provoked an equal and opposite reaction from those who didn’t believe guns were a necessary or wise option, at least for a group of teens. I’ll call these opposing camps gun “advocates” and “opponents,” but only within the context of this specific incident. Why weren’t they armed?Many advocates focused on the absence of firearms, often expressing astonishment. “Why weren’t they armed?” “I would NEVER go out in the wild without serious firepower.” “The FIRST RULE of going ANYWHERE in Alaska … is to carry a RIFLE …” “There should have been an adult with a loaded gun right behind them. My husband will not even let me go hiking without a gun.” Others were more adamant, suggesting that NOLS and the adult leaders were inexperienced or incompetent. “RULE Number One of Survival when traveling in The Wilderness where grizzlies, black bears, cougars and other such critters roam. CARRY A HIGH POWERED FIREARM WITH YOU, AND KNOW HOW TO USE IT!!” “It is the height of irresponsibility to go into bear country without firearms.” “All the experienced hikers I know carry a piece.” Some advocates recommended a specific firearm, caliber, or projectile. “You don’t go into the outback of Alaska without a 45 at a minimum.” “… if you want to go hiking in bear country you MUST be armed with a .357 mag or greater if you value your life.” “… pack a .44 magnum … that will stop a bear in it’s [sic] tracks!” “I have given my daughter and son-in-law a .454 Casull and a .30-06 rifle to carry when they go hiking or berry-picking in the wild. This is Alaska, folks!” “The best bear deterrent is a 12 gauge shotgun with 00 buckshot! This is from hard won fist [sic] hand EXPERIENCE!” While claiming to have fist-hand experience with guns and bears, many of the advocates proffered bad advice, apparently subscribing to the any-gun-is-better-than-no-gun rule of self-defense. It doesn’t work that way. An aggressive grizzly bear, or one defending its cub or a carcass, is not necessarily deterred by a little pain. The bites and blows traded by two bears can be far more debilitating than a lead pellet embedded in muscle tissue or ricocheted off their skull. And wounded bears, even fatally wounded bears, have attacked and killed the shooter or others who’ve stumbled into their path. If pepper spray is so effective why do professional bear guards carry shotguns? Very informative and interesting comments here. What I've done in the Brooks Range and other areas of Alaska is yell a lot especially in low visibility situations like bushwhacking. This has worked very well for covering ground but it doesn't work at all while I'm sleeping in a tent. I've carried pepper spray (I worry about wind) and shotguns. The problem with a gun is if you don't kill the bear when you shoot it. Fortunately I've never had to spray or shoot a bear. My dad met the son of a homesteader who in 1908 had settled the land where we'd later lived in Fairbanks. The son indicated his father had been killed by a grizzly around 1948 after his dad had shot the bear 11 times with a 30-30. The bear ran about a quarter mile down a field as it was repeatedly getting shot before it killed the homesteader. Then the bear died. If I recall, the kill zone on a bear is small if it is charging you. Great article. Any article that cuts through all the noise, emotion, and bullshit is a great article. This one does that. Thanks, Rick. Here is your Forest Service Doc on theories of firearm effectiveness. www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152 You will note that they didn't take into account differences in bullet A 45 long colt would penetrate 14.3 inches, more than the one of the lauded 375 HH loads in their test, yet it is considered ineffective. --- Seems Mr. Sinnot has written an article more about "us and them" than about A couple things that bother me on the statistics above. One, that was mentioned before, is no documentation on the many DLP bears that are taken every year in this state with a firearm. This information is easy to find, especially for Rick, yet no discussion on it at all. Obviously the bears didn't die from bear spray, so some discussion on the number that were killed and why they were killed would be appropriate. Second, the discussion on those that died that were using firearms is miss leading. There is no discussion on how many folks were actually hunting bears, and had possibly wounded them and were attempting to complete the hunt on a wounded bear. Obviously, no one goes bear hunting with bear spray (or any hunting in general), and surely doesn't pursue the bear once they have sprayed them. Taking out the instances where hunters have wounded a bear and are pursuing it, I believe would change the scope of the statistics he stated. And some discussion on hunters that were hunting other species (deer in Kodiak for instance) would also be warrented, though maybe not broken out in the statistics Rick sited. While I find bear spray to be a good deterent to the bear that hasn't figured out yet if it wants to check you out a bit more or not, I think in the end when I am getting chewed on, I would rather try and access a gun, and shoot, than spray the spray all over myself and the bear, incapacitating myself in the process and making it hard to get away if possible. Here is a recent ADN article on a bear stopped by a gun: Can anyone refer to a documented/factual account of any bear attack that was stopped with a gun? Not just a "threatening" black bear or a bluff-charging bruin but a few yards away or contact with teeth & claws. I've heard and read of dozens of accounts where, "I know a guy" or "my uncle did", but nothing with tangible proof. Two times, about 30 years and 25 years ago, I fired a round near bears that turned them around and they walked away. Both were about 40 yards out and possibly attracted to the scream of line ripping out of a fly reel. Frankly I'm not certain muzzle flash, noise or impact of the slug in the ground made a difference. But I know that I've scared off more bears by yelling than pulling a trigger. I've pushed thousands of rounds through rifles, pistols and shotguns over 40 years. But I'm not sure I could turn/draw/aim and put a kill shot in a charging brownie. I might get lucky and drill the spine or brain. But busting a shoulder, shredding heart muscle or hitting lungs probably wouldn't do it inside of 10 yards. I have several friends who have stopped bears with guns. One was working for Fish and Game counting salmon on a stream near Cold Bay and is documented in a report he made afterward. That's how I first learned of it - I found the report while going thru files in the Sand Point Fish and Game office. He later gave me a personal account. The bear knocked the rifle (338) out of his hand as he fired but the bear was deflected and ran into the brush and died. Another friend deflected a bear on Kodiak with his 30-06. He too had to file a report with ADFG in Kodiak - he might have been on the ADFG payroll at the time - can't remember. His bro-inlaw from back east was taking photos not realizing the hazards of the situation - I've heard the personal account directly and saw the photos of the charge. While I was working in the Dillingham Fish and Game office, the head biologist for the Univ. Washington camp on Aleknagik Lake came in to report 2 bear charges about 1992 or 1993. One was deterred by a woman with bear spray, the other, the guy used a 44 mag. In the guy's case, his dimwit partner ignored warnings and pushed too close to get a photo - the bear charged and the 44 was sufficient to deflect the charge. Both charges were reported to be at very close range. The woman said she was so startled she couldn't move except to deploy the spray. The other clown who precipitated the charge may have been fired - don't know for sure - his boss was very annoyed. I have talked directly to one of the 2 dentists who were slapped around near Dillingham before he finally killed the bear with a 44 in about 1999; this event was later written up in Outdoor Life or one of the other hunting magazines. In that case they were lucky to "tag team" the bear long enough until one guy figured out how to get the gun out of its holster (wasn't his gun or holster, he didn't know the holster system but made a very lucky shot). I think a DLP report was made on that one. And last year another ADFG employee was charged while moose hunting and managed to deflect the bear with a shot. He never found the bear though several folks looked for several days. OK some might say all of this is anecdotal, but except for the one UW student who was acknowledged to have brought the problem on himself, none of the others had any reason to be messing with bears other than they were working or hunting in thick brush where there were a lot of bears. The last instance listed above, the guy involved has no interest in bears, is solely a meat hunter and in no way behaves like the folks for whom I have much more suspicion regarding bear "charges". I can think of 3 attacks that were stopped with a gun. Craig Medred shot a bear with a pistol that had a hold of his foot. A guy shot and killed a brown bear in Denali Park last year with a nine mill handgun that was charging his wife. My favorite- Kathy Schmitz, while working in Kanuti Wildlife Reserve for federal fish and feathers turned and fired from the hip with a shotgun slug and killed a brown bear that was charging her. This was about 10 years ago. So, there you go. People kill bears with guns all the time. Then again other people have a gun but never get a chance to use it. I know a lot of people who have been charged and the bear turned off at the last second. But you never know when one of those charges turns out to be real... Good article. My favorite line was "and you thought bears were dangerous". Guns are only safe with well-trained operatives. How about buying 2 cans of spray and practicing with one? That could help you prepare for a confrontation. Bear pepper spray can work well if you have it out and ready, but may be an issue if you have a strong wind blowing against you. Like any self defense product, many can work against you if you happen to be in the wrong conditions. WARNING: There's a BIG difference between "pepper spray" and "bear spray". This is a 10% oleoresin capsaicin that is used for personal self-defense against humans (aka mace)... not to deter bears. For more information, see: http://centerforwildlifeinformation.org/BeBearAware/BearSpray/bearspray.html Very interesting stuff! Never heard of it. Is there any info on bear usage? Seems like it has potential for a variety of self defense situations and avoid the issues of lethal force. Even has practice rounds. One of the issues that is typically lost on folks is that what ever defensive system you pick to use, if you cannot deploy that system in 2 seconds or less you might as well not carry it. Over the decades I have struggled with bear spray. Carrying it on the side of a pack at first, but that meant I had to take the pack off to get to it and deploy it. I then moved it to a shoulder strap so that it was right on my chest, but it still took several seconds to get out of the holder, remove the safety device and squeeze off a burst. Not fast enough, but if I was on my back with a bear standing on me then maybe I could deploy it still. Maybe. I have met so many folks that carry their bear spray inside their packs or on the outside of them that in any situation they would never be able to reach the spray and use it. I learned in my youth that a long arm was a real PITA to carry around when not hunting. Left it leaning on things way too often, or hanging on a sling over my shoulder where it would take several seconds to get ready to deploy. Not fast enough. The only way a long arm will be useful is if it is in your hands when the action starts and a round is in the chamber already. My final solution is to use a .44 mag in one of Dave Johnson's Guide's Choice chest holsters. The Redhawk has an after market Xpress sight 24/7 series big dot front site with a V notch rear. I can go from picking my nose relaxed to 2 shots in the black in 2 seconds on a moving target. I also practice since shooting guns is really fun. I carry spray while fishing on the Russian around those semi trained bears. They don't seemed to be too rowdy as long as you don't try to be stoopid. The biggest issue with bear spray is knowing how to deploy it. You do not want to spray it into a wind or you will become just a canjun flavored snack. There is also the issue with flying with the stuff. A lot of small air carriers won't let you bring it unless they have a luggage comparment that does not share the same air as the cabin. These are, for me, the biggest benefits for using a firearm. TSA can't arrest me for having a gun, and bullets are not prone to wind drift over short distances. The best thing folks can do is take a defensive bear safety class from Steve Nelson (former coworker of Tom Smith) or Dennis Bromley (sp). They use a moving charging bear target system to provide some serious focused shooting drills. And its great fun. It will make you rethink about large caliber lever guns as well and hone your tactical shotgun skills. Did I mention that its fun, too? I had a good laugh at some of the comments as well. I mean, I once busted a cap in a bear's ass with my 9 mili (shot it sideways, of course), and another time I just used my handy prison shiv to take one down. Then there was the time I was stark naked and had to do hand-to-hand combat with a black bear who was 20 feet tall. Nice spin kick to his jaw and he was countin' sheep. Here's an idea: Listen to a real expert. Do a loud 50 Cent rap when you walk and have your bear spray ready to blast 'em in the grill. Its a good opinion article by someone who has some pretty good experience in the field. I agree that sometimes us Alaskans try to come off that we know bears better than we do when we dont. Ill agree that its not so much caliber but accuracy-which is difficult when you have a large, powerful, intimidating, fast moving target closing in on you. His article has helped me to consider spray as my arsenal but I also will still carry my favorite non lethal bear deterrent: a flare gun. Lots of field specialists have used these guns to good effect and report nearly 100% effectiveness in deterring an over friendly inquisitive bear. Hes good at pointing out all the scenarios and variables that must me considered when bear encounters happen. Nonetheless, I will always carry a gun of some sort when out in the woods. I will accept the fact that it will not translate to a guarantee of protection but it gives me a piece of mind that I have a fighting chance-something better than harsh language and my teeth and fingernails and a few kicks. As far as bullets "ricocheting" off a bear skull.... thats pure nonsense. Fish and Game employees have shot bear skulls with flesh and skin at distances of 100 yards shattering the skulls into fragments. Of course this is in a controlled environment; no big bear charging at them as an intimidating fast moving target- I give the author full credit about the extreme difficulty of scoping in or easily aiming at a fast moving target scaring the hell out of you. My point is if you are lucky enough to squeeze off a well aimed shot with a decent caliber firearm, the bears skull WILL shatter; not ricochet. Overall, although I disagree on multiple points, he made some pretty good ones too. His article has made me rethink my survival strategy and I will carry spray from now on. Also, some of the anecdotes from bloggers and their use of spray has impressed me too. Anyway, my two cents folks, have a good day When I hunt, I take my 9.3x66; when I walk the dog on Eagle River, I take pepper spray. Pepper sprayed my first bear (large brown) on lower South Fork Eagle River in July, 2009 at about 25 feet. It stopped the bear. He didn't back down, but he stopped and allowed me to back out. I was impressed. Thanks for a thoughtful article Rick. I'm a gun carrier, sometimes spray carrier. I don't practice enough and debate over and over in my mind: spray vs gun. I know of people who have had success with either tool. I've practiced a little with spray - its nasty stuff and will get on the sprayer too. I know I'm not a fast thinker/actor or shooter - or sprayer. As a life long Alaskan (soon 57 yrs) I've been fortunate to never have a serious problem and I don't stomp around making a lot of racket but I try to be very vigilant (much of my time is big game hunting). It would be nice to know how many true charges were stopped by guns without a problem. But from some of the folks I've heard talk, I get an uneasy sense that they (far too many) may have conjured up a "charge" to justify shooting a bear - any info one might collect in this regard could be badly biased as well. Or they just whack a non threatening bear then claim a charge to avoid legal problems - I think we had a guy do that in our dump here in Dillingham years ago. One thing I wish Rick would have addressed is his own observations as to the effectiveness of buck vs slug - even on nonproblem bears. That's another endless discussion that begs for real data. Militant Moderate, Great idea for inert practice sprays. Also a frustration is the short shelf life of bear spray. Its expensive and hard to get in the bush and the next thing you know, its out of date. 8-18 edit: One other observation: Gunshots don't always deter or scare bears. I have on 3 occasions tried to warn off brown bears by firing my 300 win mag or 41 mag. One bear just kept on doing what he was doing and acted like he never hear the gun - we were about 75- 100 yds apart across a shallow stream - but he was good and never bothered us all night. Another was in the Dillingham dump - sow and 2 cubs the cubs backed off and when one tumbled down a dirt bank momma followed. Third was on a small river - shooting 41 mags into the air, then water near it made it nervous but curious. It finally spooked when a rock I threw nearly hit it in the head - I think it got my scent off the rock. After that I'll rub any rocks in my pits first. I would point out a couple of things. One, the data set is not complete in any sense because as the author points out, bear/human encounters in which the bear was killed before any damage was done to a human were not included in the studies cited. The final paragraph of this well written article should be required reading by everyone who sets foot outdoors in Alaska. Well done, Rick. Now, everyone go buy bearspray, please. I don't know what is misaligned more...this article...or the people who comprise it's data. Taken: People do a lot of stupid things with guns. But lets look at the native population: They hunt with small caliber guns. They shoot most bears that are near their villages or berry picking sites. That is what I know from people who work as teachers with them. And they really do grow up with the outdoors, 24/7...rather than commute from wherever. I think we need their input about bears. Are the natives realist? Or, in modern Alaskan Biologist parlance would they be paranoid and uneducated? Great article from a real expert. One of the studies which he cites said that in the typical bear attack the victim had less than two seconds to respond with a firearm or pepper spray before the bear was on top of the person. Not really enough time to react effectively with either method. So, the way I see it... Prevention, by avoiding bears and alerting bears, is the best solution. And have someone with you who has bear spray. I'd much rather get sprayed accidentally than shot accidentally while a bear is on top of me. I carry bear spray but the problem I have with it is that I have never practiced using it. The big cans cost too much to practice with and the cans that I've handled which have been used have residue on them which gets on your hands and really stings the eyes and affects breathing. I think it would be beneficial for these bear spray companies to sell a cheap practice can with some inert substance in it so you can safely try it in the wind or close spaces. I carry a gun while camping for protection in the tent. You wouldn't want to discharge a can of spray in a closed tent, would you? All of the bear spray companies offer inert training canisters so you can get the feel for the safety trigger and the feel of how it works. As a two time encounter survivor that has used bear spray, I highly recommend purchasing a inert when you purchase your bear spray, it is cheap insurance to learn how to use bear spray. Interesting, never knew this - I've never seen the inert stuff but I'll look more carefully for it. Can you recommend a source in Alaska? Very well thought out and takes in the complexities of spray nicely. In pre-spray days I've used pots and pans to make noise to scare bears away and that has worked and I've carried firecrackers, although I never had to use those. And I've camped in an area in the Yukon where a guy was killed by a bear a week before (and the bear ate part of him but they were not sure about where the bear was). But I make a lot of noise around each campsite (except that time setting up on a trail that turned out to be a bear-path late on a dark night), and throw stones in the bushes all around and scout out around the camp for a quarter mile. I did this camping throughout West Africa also, while there is no large game there, there are other nasties. Sixty yeas in Alaska walking the country side and forests from the Slope to Wrangle I have never had a bear encounter nor seen one up close that I did not want to. I explain it by saying I make a lot of noise while traveling in bear country. I think little bells are ineffective but the human voice loudly calling out every minute or so alerts animals to your presence,they step aside until you have passed or head the other direction. Of course there is always a first time so I carry a 12 gauge with slugs and pepper spray. When I moved here 20 years ago I was paranoid about bears. I carried a 12 gauge with the plug removed, bear spray and I suppose bells. I stopped carrying anything 19 years ago but after reading this article I think I'll get a can new can of pepper spray for when I am with children. I spend more time than most in bear country. Bottom line, with few exceptions, wild bears just aren't interested in us. For gosh sakes, if they were we would hear a lot about it. Flying, driving and moose are more dangerous. Of course if you surprise a bear, threaten its food or young you they will act involuntarily. But for the most part they go the other way when they sense people. In my opinion bears that are habituated to humans should be removed immediately. They are not worth the trouble and its not like there is a shortage. Anchorage is people country. It is perverse that there are so many people that think its neat to create incentives for bears to thrive in people country. |
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