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Iraq War Vets Reflect as Al Qaeda Rebounds

Monday, January 13, 2014

A US marine from the 3/5 Lima company points his rifle at a building as it burns in the restive city of Fallujah,14 November 2004. (PATRICK BAZ/AFP/Getty)

President Barack Obama brought the last American troops home from Iraq over two years ago. While the war may be over from an American perspective, the country is still in crisis.

Al Qaeda flags now fly over Fallujah and Ramadi, two of the major conflict zones for American troops throughout the war. For American veterans who fought in the region, that news is hard to hear. 

Today on The Takeaway, three Iraq War veterans who served in the region discuss the recent fall of Fallujah and Ramadi, and reflect on their service in Iraq.

Marine Michael Zacchea suffered severe injuries during a fire-fight in 2004 during what is known as the second battle of Fallujah. Benjamin Busch served two combat tours in Iraq as a Marine Corps infantry officer. He's is the author of the memoir "Dust to Dust." David Retske is a former UAV pilot who served in Iraq from 2004 to 2005.

As Al Qaeda makes a resurgence, how do these vets feel about the landscape today?

"I really thought that the Iraqi army and police would put up a better show of defending the city," says Zacchea of Fallujah. "That's exactly what we were training the Iraqi army and police to do—to defeat Al Qaeda and the insurgents. It appears as if they gave up without a fight."

At one point when Busch was in Iraq, he said his unit feared that the nation would fall to turmoil—but they vowed to hold Ramadi. 

"To hear of it falling now—especially to Al Qaeda—is particularly disturbing," Busch tells The Takeaway. "Despite wavering support and finally an absence of support for the war fairly quickly, we stayed for nine years. We know people in Ramadi. We really did—with our blood and with our time there—try to do something that mattered. (We) tried to do something that had sustainability, that would leave an impression of us that was not as an aggressor. That was as a friend."

For Busch, it is now difficult to hear that Ramadi has fallen to their greatest enemy.

"(It) seems to erase so many of those lives, so much of that effort," he says. "I don't want to image that what we tried to put in place was so easily erased."

Retske says that he holds a slightly more optimistic view than Busch and Zacchea.

"We may have lost land over there, but it seems like we may have kept the hearts and minds of some of the people," says Retske. 

Retske pointed to news reports that show that thousands of Iraqis have fled Fallujah, where violence is escalating.

"The Iraqi people are now seeing how bad it was under them and how much better it was when we were there," adds Retske.

A Failure of Leadership

Zacchea feels that a great deal of the problems currently facing Iraq stems from a failure of leadership on the part of the Iraqis, and in particular Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. This vet feels al-Maliki is not beholden to democracy.

"He is increasingly becoming dictatorial," says Zacchea. "The Sunnis actually have a legitimate gripe and Al Qaeda saw an opportunity to take back the city and they did."

Busch agrees with both Zacchea and Retske, saying that toward the end of the American military occupation in Iraq, U.S. troops were seen as a neutral party. He adds that Iraqi tribes despise Prime Minister al-Maliki's government almost equally. 

"They're having a hard time aligning with their own national troops to expel Al Qaeda," he says. "We have taken ourselves out of the equation—they don't have anyone else to reach out to. It's difficult."

If these vets had President Obama's ear, what would they tell him about the conflict and rebound of Al Qaeda?

"The strategy was not sound for us leaving," says Retske. "We may have thrown the kid in the pool and said now it's time to sink or swim. We may have just been a little too hasty here. We should have had a better contingency for getting out, other than pulling everyone out and wishing them luck as we closed the door."

Busch says he is concerned about that the growing conflict in Syria, Iran's influence and what kind of impact these issues could have on Iraq. 

"The perception of Iraq as I have it right now is they actually believe that the U.S. is in cahoots with Al Qaeda, which is just a terrible feeling that that's the rumor within Iraq," says Busch. "They think we've left them entirely alone."

Roughly 14,000 Iraqis have sought refuge in the country's northern Kurdish region after escaping violence in Anbar province, according to the Kurdistan regional government.
The refugees came from the city of Fallujah where the humanitarian situation is rapidly deteriorating, as people who were trapped in the city did not have access to food or fuel for days.

Guests:

Benjamin Busch, David Retske and Michael Zacchea

Produced by:

Allie Ferguson, Mythili Rao and Jillian Weinberger

Editors:

T.J. Raphael

Comments [10]

Nick from Central NJ

It should be appreciated that two soldiers were interviewed for this this segment to give a real life taste of what Anbar Iraq is really like. There is something important though that folks should think about while injesting this drama on main stream media.

I feel it is not a good idea to label every Sunni insurgency group "al Qaeda". I think this is part of the problem altogether in the Middle East.
I know that these groups use "the black flag of al Qaeda" as their banner, a way to show themselves off. But to American audiences that do not pay attention very closely, this labeling makes one think that what is being called al Qaeda in Fallujah, ISIL, Ansar al Shariah, Jabhat al Nusra, etc are all one coherent group that is part of some giant centralized organization. And even worse, it is easy to clump them together with the original al Qaeda, which is nothing like it was when it, led by Osama bin Laden, hit the United States mainland. This is a dangerous over simplification. These are more regional Sunni groups, all kind of fighting for separate, local reasons. From what I understand in Fallujah, a city that was decimated by American and Allied forces (to the point where chemical weapons like white phosphorus were used), has every reason to be in an armed resistance to the Maliki government. Iraq must have better representation for its minorities or this kind of fighting, insurgency, etc will continue to come back. We or Iraq gov can beat these guys back with brute force, but if Sunnis are going to be marginalized and treated as second class citizens than this kind of fighting will return.

Jan. 14 2014 03:22 PM

Hi Ben and David,

T. J. Raphael here, Digital Content Editor for The Takeaway. We want to thank you for visiting our site and weighing in. We really appreciated your testimony on our program yesterday. Thank you for your insights.

Best,
T. J.

Jan. 14 2014 09:18 AM
Benjamin Busch

I'm glad to hear you weigh back in David. The honor was mine. I was no hero, but I served with a few. I think it would have taken us an hour to do any justice to this subject between the three of us. I would have added that I feel this Al Queda takeover will be brief, that they do not have enough foot soldiers or depth to control much for long, nor have they ever really demonstrated the ability to administer. They have controlled areas with fear and, occasionally, with cash, but they remain unwelcome outsiders and overwhelming Iraqi national forces will soon be brought to bear against them. The problem is the largely Sunni population caught in between. Maliki, of course, has very little concern for them in his heart, but he'll have to be very careful to avoid harm to Anbar residents as he targets terrorists. The Sunnis are alert for reasons to reignite full scale sectarian violence (which they are close to doing) and significantly prolong any hope of stability in the Iraqi west. Al Queda would view this, as they do now, as an opportunity to further damage central control of the Iraqi state and allow them to extend their influence with even less resistance in the region. I also agree with you that any progressive freedoms in Iraq from here out will have to come from idealogical shifts not militarily force. It will take time. I still feel that despite the complexity inherent to a division of Iraq into three nation states, it will eventually happen. Of course I thought that it was going to happen as soon as Iraqis could vote so my crystal ball is flawed like everyone else's. Thank you for adding your perspective and for remaining hopeful. And for all listeners, please add your thoughts, especially if you have another view on the situation or some related information.

Jan. 13 2014 10:13 PM
David P Retske from Jacksonville, Fl

I would like to first say that I was honored to b speak alongside Michael Zacchea and Benjamin Busch; they are true heroes. Compared to them, I was merely child playing soldier in my backyard; I am truly humbled. I have ordered Benjamin's book and I look forward to reading it.

My position is still that it is too early to see if soldiers "wasted" their lives. It is my hope that the citizens of Iraq's Anbar provenance will realize that we [the military] were there to help and to improve the lives of the Iraqi people. The only way we can institute change and peace in the Middle East is if the people want it. The Marines and soldiers' sacrifices were not in vain if they sway the minds of the people.

As was mentioned, it was a mistake to have a full withdrawal deadline. The decision should be left to the generals and not be subject to the political pressures of congress and the President. If war is to be waged, it should be waged to win.

Jan. 13 2014 06:40 PM
stu G. from Muldoon Alaska.

I hope The Take Away explores whether or not the weapons buy back program that I think took place in Iraq had anything to do with the situation we now find ourselves in. In short did taking weapons away from the locals open the door for the bad guys to walk in? With the understanding of the history of these areas I would have questioned this policy from day one.

Jan. 13 2014 03:33 PM
Benjamin Busch

I participated in this very brief talk on NPR's "The Takeaway" about very large and complicated ideas related to Ramadi and Fallujah being retaken by Al Queda. We obviously couldn't expand on the complexities due to available time so it feels somewhat incomplete. For the record, I do not endorse sending any American troops to reinforce the Iraqi Army in fighting Al Queda, but I do think that we need to be clear in our language that we are with Iraq against Al Queda and loudly contribute what intelligence and advice we can in their confrontation with them. We would think this obvious but Iraqis don't quite believe that we are on their side right now because we supported the rebel coalition against the Syrian regime which included Al Queda forces and just stopped an arms deal with the Maliki Government at a moment when he's trying to fight Al Queda which makes us look like we don't want him to win. The order was actually halted to protect Sunnis from potential military oppression by the Shia/Maliki government, but the perception doesn't play that way in Iraq. We may not be in a war of bullets, but we are heavily immersed in a contest of perception. I would have liked to have added that. I also don't feel we own any dirt in Iraq, despite what we paid for it in blood, treasure and memory, but it does not please me to see Al Queda step on the dirt we bled on. That's all. Please join the conversation with me, Michael Zacchea and David Retske.

Jan. 13 2014 03:12 PM
JACK SEGAL from Traverse City, MI

Benjamin Busch has written eloquently in his book, "Dust to Dust," of the great challenges he and his colleagues faced. The multiple challenges - the Iraqi people, its multiple different leaders and factions - created for our soldiers have not diminished. Ben Busch spoke of the devastating loss all who served there must feel today seeing what has happened since. But that is no reason to consider going back into Iraq. Maliki may not be to our liking, but neither is it in our power to replace him.

Jan. 13 2014 02:16 PM
Tom Moynihan from Dallas, Texas

The last US/Iraq SOFA was signed Nov. 18, 2008, while Pres. Bush was still in office. The Bush Administration understandably took the position that U.S. forces needed the protection of U.S. sovereignty, and could not be subjected to Iraqi law. That diplomatic failure to convince the Iraqis that U.S. forces should be protected under U.S. law was the reason U.S. forces had no choice but to leave according to the SOFA timetable (unless the U.S. had decided that we did not need to recognize Iraqi sovereignty.) The text of the SOFA can be found here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2008/11/18/56116/unofficial-translation-of-us-iraq.html.

Although diplomats in the Obama administration attempted to re-open SOFA negotiations, so that U.S. forces could continue to be based in Iraq, Maliki had no interest in a continued U.S. presence--when those talks were fruitless, Pres. Obama had no choice but to abide by the terms and timetable of the previously negotiated and signed 2008 SOFA.

Jan. 13 2014 12:28 PM

Even though I am against war, I think the host was insensitive to say that people died in vain in Falujah or other battles. In the very least they were protecting each other and that is not in the least in vain. Get a heart!

Jan. 13 2014 12:16 PM
P.

I realize NPR is 'slightly' left leaning, but c'mon! Two times now you have interviewed individuals in regards to OIF/OEF in as many weeks. Both times you have tried to have your interviewee state or acknowledged the wars have all been "meaningless". The first time was to a Gold Star mother of a Navy SEAL. Both times your questions have been turned on their head. These are pretty low-blow questions even for NPR. Politics aside, asking a person these questions who may be experiencing some issues you could not even fathom is disgraceful. These questions are meant to push your agenda, I get it, but C'MON!

Jan. 13 2014 10:38 AM

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