'Stadiums of Hate': Legitimate and fair

Sky did the expose so much better.

BBC seems somewhat sensationalistic over claims in Panorama documentary racism & anti-semitism are rampant in Ukraine & Poland. Documentary, Euro 2012: Stadiums of Hate, which was screened last week, included the footage of Polish fans chanting anti-semitic slogans & giving Nazi salutes, also showed group of Asian fans being beaten & punched at an end-of-season league match in Ukraine.

Former England defender. Sol Campbell urged fans to stay away, "watch it on TV". "Don't even risk going...because you could end up coming back in a coffin." BUT Jonathan Ornstein, Executive Director of Jewish Community Centre in Krakow said BBC was selectively reporting. He was "furious" at Panorama's exploitation of him as source; he claimed he & others were used to manipulate antisemitism.

I watched the Panorama programme.

The funny bit was the Police Chief saying "no they were only pointing".

The most serious bit was the fans saying they were not Nazi but just agreed with Hitler about black and jewish people. They forgot to mention slavs, ie. themselves, who Hitler regarded as non-human. Possibly after going to a football match.

Ornstein lashed out, claiming Panorama's reporter Chris Rogers had interviewed him for more than an hour; he told Rogers small number of racist & antisemitic fans in Poland "do not represent Polish society as a whole" & urged him to interview 2 Israeli footballers who played for Wisla Krak¢w. Rogers responded this line of inquiry 'didn't fit the story' - a perplexing reply.

Ornstein further complained Chris Rogers disregarded anything positive, then aired only comments critical of Poland. However, BBC flatly rejected Ornstein's comments, claiming to have made it clear interview was being carried out in context of football-related racism & antisemitism in Poland. BBC denied refusing the offer to interview the Israeli players because it "did not fit the story".

Like so many things these days, there appears to be what is, and what some wish it appears. From many 'sides'.
'we feel strongly that our reporting was both legitimate and fair'
Too often, the BBC has shown itself to be on one of those sides.
And rushing to The Editors to say, again, 'we believe we got it about right' is hardly cutting it any more.

The programme wholly inaccurate, and claimed fans where chanting anti Jew stuff even when the word Jew was not actually being used at all! https://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=18996

Very interested to hear the Government are to shun the tournament, as they "have concerns that human rights are not being upheld in Ukraine".

This from those who would repeal our own Human Rights Act, if only they could get a majority...

In countries that still tolerate, even 'must have', an 'unemployment pool', we can expect more than individual misery

'Political reaction' in the more homogenous

'Sinking of minorities' in the more 'globalised'

Victimisation of the poor, often by the poor

The 'culture' of competition: 'Escape from Sobibor'

So uk government shuns the tournament because it doesn't approve of the Ukrainian government... But the king of Bahrain brutally puts down democracy protests and he gets a multimillion pound arms deal and an invite for tea with the Queen. I'm sure if the Ukrainians grease the right UK palms our corrupt leaders will forget all about it.

In countries that still tolerate, vote only for, the 'economical with truth', expect to be 'managed' with bluster

Honesty doesn't pay, not in terms of bonuses & power

'Economy' gets you power, a chat-show future, economy be damned

Abetted subterfuge gets you into Eurozone, 'fingers-crossed guarantees' sold-on

'Fingers-crossed' in vain, tsunami coming, from distant Sub-Prime

All 'hooliganism'

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It is alwasy difficult when reporting on alleged 'racism' to distinguish between bad behaviour which is motivated by different ethnicities, and that which has other motivations. Ultimately, does it matter? Hoodlums need to learn to behave themselves and not to brawl or even shout abuse at others who have also come to watch a footie match. Doesn't matter WHY they are misbehaving.

"Legitimate & fair", to name flags?

Panorama relayed "images of racist abuse & violence", reported Sol Campbell for "fans and families", on fear "back in a coffin"

@13, images & fears related to wider malaise, beyond sporadic: horrors past & on-going, under many flags

Observing friction between exhortations & actions, dangerous game-plays

Echoing social exclusion warning as @10

The BBC Panorama about Poland and Ukraine recalled me the communist propaganda from Polish TV under the communist regime. Fully fabricated reality patched from the real pieces and spiced with some genuine lies.

Another source from Poland reveals that BBC Panorama lied and keeps on lying:
https://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/06/poland-and-bbc

Panorama has opened our eyes wide to sporting discrimination and hate in Poland and Ukraine. In the 21st century, one would expect enlightenment and common-sense to have taken root with regard to tolerance and good race relations. Alas this has not taken place! How long will racism mar the spirit of competitive sport?

The BBC has done a great service by researching and exposing this problem in Eastern Europe. The fact the Ukrainean and Polish authorities deny and trivialise the issue is unsurprising. It took decades for the US and UK authorities to face the truth of their own policies and attitudes of "race hate." Eastern Europe is at the stage of cultural development that the West was several decades ago.

A lot had been said recently regarding issues of racism, whether on, or off the pitch in both Poland and Ukraine. However grateful I am to BBC for bringing up what's happening on some of the Polish and Ukrainian stadiums during league matches I cannot fail to notice the damage it caused for the image of both co-hosting countries in the eyes of many Brits.

Only yesterday, on my way home, I heard one of the listeners of my favorite radio station, expressing their "disgust" with, not UEFA's decision to assign the Euros to Poland and Ukraine as countries yet to tackle the problem of racism(which in fact, in my home country Poland, is minute but it does exist), not PZPN (Polish FA) for not doing enough to eradicate this problem from league matches,

ThePole @20

Well said.

If there is failure to promote democracy and full employment for all, then the highlighting of more visible or violent 'breakdowns' may stigmatise victim communities, and distract from the truth that 'hate-spectrum-disorder' is the responsibility of all, the inevitable fall-out from 'socialisation' without equality of respect for all

but with the countries themselves! What took me by surprise was that none of the reporters hosting the show on air cared to correct or even comment on the listener's view, they simply carried on stating: "Oh yeah, I remember watching Panorama's documentary on that" !?

Despite of BBC's statement that Panorama's documentary was not aimed at the Nations as a whole (published here only ?) , despite of the statement of Mr Jonathan Ornstein who expressed his deep disappointment with how BBC's selectivity on his over an hour long interview completely distorted the message he wanted to put across (again, Daily Mail's website only ?), the damage's been done!

Obviously I'm grateful to many Brits who acknowledge that this problem concerns minorities in both countries, however the big part of British public who rely on the telly only (much like in Poland) is taking on board what was said in "Stadiums of hate" and that's where my grief lies.

This mentions but does not address the criticism from the Polish government: why did Panorama not speak to "international security experts" instead of going to Sol Campbell? I think and answer suggests itself and it has little to do with good journalistic practice.

Advising fans not to go because they might "come back in coffins" is a massive exaggeration and anyone who has been to Poland will recognise this. Why are the makers of Panorama expressing surprise at this?

How is such a gross exaggeration useful?

Poland does have problems in its stadiums but as Mr Jonathan Ornstein pointed out, what was presented was so distorted a useful opportunity to properly address the issue was missed.

While I cannot speak about the situation in Ukraine, and clearly an official interviewed there was blind to the problems, this is hardly true of Poland. You state that *especially* Poland has problems, giving figures but in then in the very next paragraph you state Ukraine doesn't keep such statistics. So, on what basis are you making the comparison?

The problem has been acknowledged in Poland.

See this article from 2011, about a fan being prosecuted for propagating racist views in the local football club's fanzine.
https://www.thenews.pl/1/5/Artykul/55022,Football-fan-in-dock-on-racism-charges

As the article states, "Concern over racist abuse and hooliganism is running high in Poland owing to the country's impending co-hosting of the Euro 2012 tournament with Ukraine."

The Polish PM, Donald Tusk has declared a war against the hooligans.
Again, from 2011:
https://www.zimbio.com/Donald+Tusk/articles/nnThW7EHkLg/Polish+PM+targets+hooligans+after+Cup+final

Nevermind Poland, when will Britain deal with rasism spreading within its own boundries? Poland and Ukraine are homogeneous societies, whilst Britain was being multiculturally formed for centuries and still this problem exists! Very unprofessional and selective, tabloid-like reporting, much below BBC standarts.

@dalpengi - the text does not say that: "*especially* Poland has problems", but that it's got these recorded, unlike Ukraine. Anything but this I agree with your views. Regards!

@Naag - (quote) "Eastern Europe is at the stage of cultural development that the West was several decades ago."

Naag, please, read some history of this region before posting such a nonsense! Ignorance might be offensive.

Very good journalistic job of Economist. Shame on Panorama, and then shame on BBC for geting deeper and deeper in the mud, instead of apology.

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A slam piece by BBC on two poorer Slavic nations. They could have found much more frightening soccer fans in their own back yard and real nut jobs like Aryan Nation in U.S. British colonial tradition and smug superiority marches on with BBC racism against Poland and Ukraine.